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Here is what I said:That wasn't what you said. I quoted your exact words. Anyway, even with this statement, you're implying the same thing. If you're overwhelming someone, that means you're better and again, how did Kagura even remotely do this? She parried an attack. That was literally all. How does that translate to overwhelm and you said overwhelm Kagura which means you're talking in a general sense. I fail to see the connection here.
Overwhelm is what you call Natsu vs Bluenote or FDKM vs Jacob. If you're referring to a single aspect, then it needs to be specific. For instance, Kagura being overwhelmed by Dimaria's Magic.
Kagura has the feats to overwhelm Dimaria.
I never said Kagura was stronger than Wahl or Dimaria. I clearly stated that Kagura outclassed Wahl in speed and overwhelmed Dimaria in skills.
Also, when I say she outclasses Wahl, I'm talking about speed.
First, Overwhelm ≠ Better. That is faulty logic because all the Tartaros Demons overwhelmed Fairy Tail. Not a single one was defeated with ease. Overwhelm here means that there was an exchange where the fight wasn't so one-sided. In other words, one or both sides had trouble. Second, I was specifically referring to skills as I quoted myself which is backed up by Dimaria's statement herself. Lastly, Natsu vs Bluenote and Natsu vs Jacob is more like a one-sided fight or a one-shot rather than overwhelm.I literally repeated myself that Kagura is a match for Dimaria and Wahl... Meaning she should be on par.
No, there is no telling that Wahl used that attack to wipe out fodders. He could have gone overboard. That is exactly what I was arguing about with another user. That attacked killed a member from Mermaid Heel and if we just look at damage it did, then it goes to prove how strong it actually was. Not only that, but it covered such a wide area. Even if most of the missiles already hit, Kagura still sliced through 5+ rockets within a second.That's hasty conclusion. Wahl used one attack there (rockets). He intended for that attack to mass wipe out fodder. Regardless of how powerful the rockets may seem, it wasn't an attack intended for those that are powerful. That is, he didn't use the attack with the intention to KO an opponent he considered a serious threat. Kagura slicing the missiles is impressive but it doesn't in anyway indicate that she can take on a wahl. The issue is that you're taking single instances and jumping to somewhat extreme conclusions. Blocking/evading a single attack doesn't make you equal to the attacker.
That's like saying because someone tanked Natsu's base roar means said person can fight on par with him.
I used this feat as a way to say that Kagura is a match for a Spriggan mainly because of speed. Her skills were proven through Dimaria. We know she has high MP, attack, and defense from previous fights. What else do we need to say that she is Spriggan Level? I mean everyone says Gajeel is one when we've seen nothing from him. Kagura has more feats here.
Wendy is different because we know she is weak. She was too far behind in Tartaros to catch up to a Spriggan's level. Kagura, on the other hand, was very much on Erza's level so to say that she caught up and became Spriggan level is not that much of a stretch. Actually, even before the fight, I knew Wendy and Chelia would lose against Dimaria. I'd call the fight nonsense if they won. The fact that Chelia got an overpowered power-up made me dislike the fight but it would be better than if those two girls soloed Dimaria with ease. Also, the feat from Wendy that you're referencing just proves my point. Wendy did nothing to Dimaria. Meanwhile, we have Kagura who could still do something and based on her stats as well as her feats + hype, it is reasonable to say she is Spriggan level. Otherwise, we would be sitting here and saying Gray isn't Spriggan level when we know for a fact that he is. He may not be on Natsu's level but I have no doubts that he is Spriggan level. Note that even Kagura has more feats than Gray.Why is Wendy different? You're referencing Kagura blocking Dimaria's strike as one to imply she's equal. Wendy literally kicked Dimaria in the face. She was fast enough to do so without Dimaria being able to block. However, we saw how that turned out eventually. My point? A single instance doesn't imply the conclusion will be the same. Dimaria took a DF powered kick to the face and came out unscathed. We only say now that Wendy is weaker since we saw the end but if Mashima had left us only with that panel of Wendy kicking Dimaria, then we'd be in the same position as with Kagura.
As far as I am concerned, overwhelm = surprise. The fact that Gray and Natsu were surprised by Brandish's power is no different from Kagura being surprised by Dimaria's power. If we're just grasping at words, then they both mean the same thing.For reference:
Notice their reaction. Gray comments that it's nothing like they've felt before. He mentions nothing about it being overwhelming. Later on, he says she's better than the old man (but that's after she has used her magic to reshape the island). Again, no mention of being overwhelmed. Nothing about losing track of their surroundings. Heck Gray even notices Natsu holding his arm in the next page. From their expressions and words, they're surprised not overwhelmed.
Then there shouldn't be any argument here. Calling someone's magic overwhelming is a direct statement. Saying "Whats up with her magic... It's nothing like we've ever felt before" is just an indirect way of calling someone's magic overwhelming. Besides it would be boring if Hiro Mashima just copied and pasted the same statement over and over again, so he has to phrase it differently to change it up.Not sure where you got this from. I never said it was a reference to attack power. I know it's a reference to Mp.
Actually, she didn't. Erza was at the mercy of Kagura in this panel.Erza had practically defeated Kagura when Minerva stepped in (that's why Minerva came to begin with) and then Erza still had enough in the tank to defeat Minerva (who finished off Kagura). Point still stands.
But she got back up and fought, right? So why can't Kagura do the same? In fact, she was about to when Minerva stepped in.
Exactly. That kick in the face hardly impressed Dimaria because it did no damage. The fact that the hit was successful or not doesn't really matter. But not only was Kagura able to defend from a surprise attack, Dimaria could see the skills that Kagura possessed unlike Wendy.Well she got kicked in the face, hardly going to impress her. Also, she doesn't have to praise Wendy when we have panels that prove Wendy was able to land a successful hit on Dimaria.
Sure, getting stronger from anger is natural. Just like when Juvia got stronger by thinking about Gray when she fought Meredy.Nope, it's not for the sake of this argument. I never said I entirely like the idea of PoF but the fact remains that it's legit. Erza has proved consistently that she can go beyond her limits when she fights. Mashima apparently said the same thing in an interview, that is, that Erza's determination can help her best an opponent who would normally be stronger. We've seen this consistently so there's no need to act like PoF doesn't exist. It's a legit ability for Erza. Obviously there's a cap on it. No need for sarcasm.
This is legitimate because she didn't go from having trouble to an automatic one-shot. Actually, this is a prime example of how PoF should be used. Not when it increases your power by a full tier or more.
I agree he saved her. From taking damage... It's not like if he wasn't there, then Kagura would be defeated. There is no proof of that. We saw Erza take damage in her fight. But she managed to defeat Ajeel. It happens with everybody. To come out of a battle unscathed means there is a huge difference in power which doesn't seem to be the case here.Again, you're missing the point. You're implying Jellal hindered Kagura when he was in fact saving her. Also, I didn't say she would get one shotted. I said she need to be saved and we know she has nowhere near the endurance and durability of Erza. See, that's the same logic you're using with your earlier claims of Kagura being able to best Wahl and Dimaria in those fields. There's no exclusive proof to that.
Yes, because if Kagura was strong enough, she wouldn't be on the background to begin with. She would have fought alongside, not simply behind.
Nope, that example doesn't follow. Cana snuck up on Brandish. There's a difference between taking advantage of a situation and remaining in the background regardless. Cana did the former, Kagura was the latter.
Now, comparing Erza and Kagura, I think we have enough evidence to say that they are likely the same in terms of endurance. Sure, Erza has durability with her armors but we saw Kagura has the attack power to cut through Erza's most defensive armor. And that is when her sword was unsheathed.
Either way, Kagura has the speed to blitz Erza so the fight could still be in her favor.
As for the fight with Neinhart, Erza and Kagura obviously didn't get the spotlight because Jellal has it. Plus, he is stronger. That much I can agree. Jellal is comparable to Laxus who should be above Erza. However, that does not mean Kagura can't take on Neinhart or another Spriggan herself either...