Semifinal Hunter x Hunter vs. Fullmetal Alchemist

[Brandish μ]

Eh, we don't know Togashi so no point labeling him as lazy or whatever. I'm with Aizen about hiatuses too, I can wait if it's good enough. Like going to a restaurant over fast food (not calling FMA fast food either, it's gourmet ) please SirSamuel don't comment about SnS or Rindo :P

These are 2 very good manga. This final should be worth reading for discussion about the stories. I'd like to ask a few questions:

1. Which world do you find better?
2. Best power mechanic - Nen or Equivalent Exchange?
3. Both have some sad moments. Can HxH rival FMA? (e.g Maes Hughes, Nina Tucker)
4. FMA's cast vs HxH's cast - how do they stack up?

 

[Skylent]

Erinyes, don't worry, I'm far from those who permanently bash Togashi for "Dragon Quest blablabla".

Togashi may be ill, or he may be not (he probably is given your sources), I actually neither defend him or attack him usually. I must say I don't really care (except when people are annoying). I don't know enough about him as a person to love him or hate him so I must say I don't really care about him. x) ( except when people are overly annoying making too insisting jokes about I already have found myself defending him)

When I said "if he is lazy" I was just postulating the same as the opposite side in order to better prove my point. Like "even if you're right that doesn't make your point valid"

Sorry if you thought I was disrespecting Togashi, I wouldn't judge someone I know nothing about.

 

[Demonspeed]

Eh, we don't know Togashi so no point labeling him as lazy or whatever. I'm with Aizen about hiatuses too, I can wait if it's good enough. Like going to a restaurant over fast food (not calling FMA fast food either, it's gourmet ) please SirSamuel don't comment about SnS or Rindo :P

These are 2 very good manga. This final should be worth reading for discussion about the stories. I'd like to ask a few questions:

1. Which world do you find better?
2. Best power mechanic - Nen or Equivalent Exchange?
3. Both have some sad moments. Can HxH rival FMA? (e.g Maes Hughes, Nina Tucker)
4. FMA's cast vs HxH's cast - how do they stack up?

1.HxH by far. How can FMA even compete here?

2. HxH. Equivalent exchange can be considered as conditions for Nen abilities. Nen is above everything as power mechanic as far as I am concerned. It feels real, we are still learning more about it. From a single move HxH fans can speculate and post theories about someone's Nen abilities and it's limits, for days or years(there are still talks about Netero's HK to this day etc.). It's fascinating. In Mahouka(it's a LN, not a manga), the magic system and other powers are almost as fascinating.

3.HxH can but I think Hughes's death hit me harder. There are plenty of sad moments in HxH but the most iconic are bittersweet I would say, like Hohenheim's story in FMA for example(I am not sure his story qualifies as bittersweet but it's the best analogy I can think of).

Hughes's death hit me harder but what happened to Kaito at the beginning of the CA arc was something else, working perfectly with the change of tone. Gon's meeting with "him" when Shoot freed him from Hotel Rafflesia might be the sad moment I could rate higher than Hughes's death but it's nowhere as iconic. Personally, what happened with Nina didn't really make me sad, it shocked me.

4.Draw I guess. I like HxH's cast more but Arakawa used her characters and fleshed them out very well, I can't really say that Togashi does it better. However, FMA's world is far more limited and because of that Togashi has more freedom.

 

[The President]

Which world do you find better?

I'd probably go with FMA on this one. For reasons described below.

Best power mechanic - Nen or Equivalent Exchange?

Nen no contest. Second most versatile power mechanic after stands (from jojo), really makes for some of the best fights in shonen. Equivalent exchange is solid as well, but it does have its restrictions.

Both have some sad moments. Can HxH rival FMA? (e.g Maes Hughes, Nina Tucker)

I tend to find the aftermath and reaction to a death a lot sadder then the actual death itself, which is usually more shocking then anything. Obviously it depends on how its done though. That said, I found the reactions Maes Hughes death sadder then Kites, but I found Kites death more shocking. However, I think there are MANY moments in HxH that are extremely sad, the MeruemxKomugi one being the creme of the crop. A lot of Killua realizations in the Chimera Ant arc were sad af as well. Hell, the Chimera Ant arc is simply sadder then anything FMA had to offer.

FMA's cast vs HxH's cast - how do they stack up?

Depends on how you look at it. HxHs cast has a lot more star power, meaning the highlights are better then any character in FMA (Hisoka and Meruem come to mind). However FMA does leave very little characters wasted (if any). Because I like HxHs characters more I'm going with it for this. But FMAs might be the better cast as a whole.

1.HxH by far. How can FMA even compete here?

I wouldn't go that far. FMA has shown far versatile topography then HxH has. We have
Cities (central, where everything takes place in).
Villages (Elrics home).
Rocky canyons (Automail central)
Desert (The one that separates Xing from Amestris)
Snowy Mountains (Fort Briggs) --> Also got Snowy abandoned cities
Forests (Where the Pride fight takes place, as well as the one against Gluttony and Envy)

And on top of that we got a bunch of different cultures, whether it be the Xing (Asian), Amestris (European), Ishval (Muslim?) and Xerxes (Ancient Rome). You really cannot undersell FMAs world.

Nen is above everything as power mechanic as far as I am concerned

Stands > Nen.

 

[Shobu_Yoruichi]

These are 2 very good manga. This final should be worth reading for discussion about the stories. I'd like to ask a few questions:

1. Which world do you find better?
2. Best power mechanic - Nen or Equivalent Exchange?
3. Both have some sad moments. Can HxH rival FMA? (e.g Maes Hughes, Nina Tucker)
4. FMA's cast vs HxH's cast - how do they stack up?

Ohh! Gotta, gotta, gotta!

1- HxH unfolds in the world, the entire planet earth, which i must say gives quite an advantage to FMA that develops in a country with all types of climate and only says that in the other said of the desert, you will find an empire that only the characters from there are important. HxH meddles with almost everything that you can find real on it's landscapes, where society is in it, and more than anything, the virtual game of G.I crushes FMA, because you can't find the former on it... you only can compare it with black door in a white room, bah!

2- Alchemy is nice, but Nen is superb and my reason to not drop HxH.

3- I can't give my opinion, i do not read manga to get my ounce of drama. When i want drama, i watch the News channel.

4- FMA wins this one! Comedy is the great tool helping here! When i get bored of manga, is usually because the poor narrative skills that can amaze me anytime... but a nice way to counter it, is with comedy! There's so many times that i get bored in HxH because of long explanations while FMA changes those equally long explanations to end with a comedy stand, i love that! and for sure Arakawa knows how to make laugh, and that's not easy achievement.

Romance is not measured by the number of times a character reacts to women Demon. It's measured by the depth of that interaction and how it's interlaced into the story and who they are as characters.

Do you want love depth!?? Here's your romance :

Spoiler

This is all the depth one needs, interacts with the society to gives an "open mind" posture, it is important to the story... because... is the way to keep the character close... and for sure it defines him as a normal person in a crazy world xd.

 

[Jammin]

Ohh! Gotta, gotta, gotta!

1- HxH unfolds in the world, the entire planet earth, which i must say gives quite an advantage to FMA that develops in a country with all types of climate and only says that in the other said of the desert, you will find an empire that only the characters from there are important. HxH meddles with almost everything that you can find real on it's landscapes, where society is in it, and more than anything, the virtual game of G.I crushes FMA, because you can't find the former on it... you only can compare it with black door in a white room, bah!

2- Alchemy is nice, but Nen is superb and my reason to not drop HxH.

3- I can't give my opinion, i do not read manga to get my ounce of drama. When i want drama, i watch the News channel.

4- FMA wins this one! Comedy is the great tool helping here! When i get bored of manga, is usually because the poor narrative skills that can amaze me anytime... but a nice way to counter it, is with comedy! There's so many times that i get bored in HxH because of long explanations while FMA changes those equally long explanations to end with a comedy stand, i love that! and for sure Arakawa knows how to make laugh, and that's not easy achievement.


Do you want love depth!?? Here's your romance :

Spoiler

This is all the depth one needs, interacts with the society to gives an "open mind" posture, it is important to the story... because... is the way to keep the character close... and for sure it defines him as a normal person in a crazy world xd.

Well.. since the next best romance would be a one and done villain's relationship with his human pet. Gotta give it to you Shobu.

That IS probably the best HXH has got though. Make of that what you will.

Eh, we don't know Togashi so no point labeling him as lazy or whatever. I'm with Aizen about hiatuses too, I can wait if it's good enough. Like going to a restaurant over fast food (not calling FMA fast food either, it's gourmet ) please SirSamuel don't comment about SnS or Rindo :P

These are 2 very good manga. This final should be worth reading for discussion about the stories. I'd like to ask a few questions:

1. Which world do you find better?
2. Best power mechanic - Nen or Equivalent Exchange?
3. Both have some sad moments. Can HxH rival FMA? (e.g Maes Hughes, Nina Tucker)
4. FMA's cast vs HxH's cast - how do they stack up?

1. Full Metal Alchemist.

No question in my mind. It's hard to go into why without spoilers but the whole story is set up from the perspective of an imperialistic military empire but involves other cultures and peoples it's conquered and a past that has been all but erased. And when you get down to it's all far more than it seems. So what you get is very intricate and interesting world built with not only a ton of depth. But a ton of meaningful depth. You don't truly understand the world until the near the climax of the story.

Hunter X Hunter is fine. I don't see it as anything special though. Just a random assortment of shounen stuff thrown together in no particular order. Bit like a darker version of One Piece's but not as good.

2. Alchemy.

Because of the limits. Everybody has the same tools but how they use them is what sets them apart. Whether it be Mustang's fire ability which is really separating air into oxygen and hydrogen. Then igniting it with a glove that sparks. Or Scar's simpler technique of breaking matter down and essentially stopping halfway through the process and weaponizing that. It results in a complex but also easy to understand group of powers.

Nen never seemed special to me. It's just shounen power. Replace the word with chakra and you've Naruto. Replece it with Reitsu and you've got Bleach. Most shouen's have a version of it. Functionally it's mostly the same.

3. No

Nina Tucker. Nuff said. The whole manga is about a pair of brother's whose mom dies and whose attempt to bring her back to life costs one his body and the other his arm. Creating an abomination in return. FMA is filled with soul crushing moments.

4. Full Metal Alchemist's is way better.

Edward and Alphonse Elric, are obviously amazing. Then there is Winry. Olivia and Alex Armstrong. Roy Mustang. Riza Hawkeye. Izumi Curtis. Ling Yao. These are not just characters you see once in a while. You get actual insight into their lives as they change as the story changes the whole world in which they live.

 

[shionoro]

Well.. since the next best romance would be a one and done villain's relationship with his human pet. Gotta give it to you Shobu.

That IS probably the best HXH has got though. Make of that what you will.

So i guess it is kinda sad that it is still tenfolds of times more captivating than the 'Protagonist has feelings for his childhood love but can't admit it' trope FMA likes to employ

 

[Skylent]

Stands > Nen.

No wayyyyyyy


Well, at least as part 3-4 are concerned, I don't know if there are great improvements to the mechanics afterwards.

From what I saw, stands are veeeery diverse and imaginative and that's great but it terms of mechanics of the whole thing Nen is clearly superior. I mean, when you look at stands, you see the plot behind, new abilities and rules that serve the plot. When you look at nen, you see a self-working system whose inherent mechanics are expectly used by the characters to draw the plot forward.

Also to answer the questions:
1) It is not that easy to choose since they have a different approach. HxH's world is more diverse (Big city, video game, mountains, tower, forests, gorges, lots of monsters..) But FMA's has more historical structure. The whole country is linked and other countries story are tied as well.
I will go with HxH I think because of the current arc

Spoiler: HxH last arc

Togashi is really havily exploring the politics of the human world and what is looming with the Dark continent is DANTESQUE.

2) Nen, hands down. Said above.

3) I think I will go with FMA on this one. I only felt weird at this end of KA while FMA has several harrowing moments.

4) I'd say that's a tie. Both character casts are very good. I can't seem to find a single bad character in HxH and FMA makes use of all the characters (almost none is irrelevant).

 

[Demonspeed]

I wouldn't go that far. FMA has shown far versatile topography then HxH has. We have
Cities (central, where everything takes place in).
Villages (Elrics home).
Rocky canyons (Automail central)
Desert (The one that separates Xing from Amestris)
Snowy Mountains (Fort Briggs) --> Also got Snowy abandoned cities
Forests (Where the Pride fight takes place, as well as the one against Gluttony and Envy)
And on top of that we got a bunch of different cultures, whether it be the Xing (Asian), Amestris (European), Ishval (Muslim?) and Xerxes (Ancient Rome). You really cannot undersell FMAs world.

I was not thinking about topography, but how interesting the world is. Among everything you listed only deserts have not been seen I think. FMA's world takes inspiration from cultures existing IRL but HxH does both(Kakin, York Shin, NGL, Bapu and other fantastic cultues, fantastic creatures etc.). Real life inspirations and fantastic. And we haven't even explored the DC yet or the official map.

Stands > Nen.

I don't see how Stands can be more versatile than Nen TBH.

2. Alchemy.

Because of the limits. Everybody has the same tools but how they use them is what sets them apart. Whether it be Mustang's fire ability which is really separating air into oxygen and hydrogen. Then igniting it with a glove that sparks. Or Scar's simpler technique of breaking matter down and esentially stopping halfway through the process and weaponizing that. It resulting in a complex but also easy to understand group of powers.

Nen never seemed special to me. It's just shounen power. Replace the word with chakra and you've Naruto. Replece it with Reitsu and you've got Bleach. Most shouen's have a version of it. Functionally it's mostly the same.

You are oversimplifying things a lot. Yes, Nen is shounen power, just like Alchemy is in FMA. There are rules and limits in all these fictional worlds. I don't remember the details of Alchemy in FMA but as a power system I don't see how it is better than Nen. Nen is more versatile, complex, subtle(the four basics, Nen Categories, advanced techniques, Conditions, the various training methods etc), there is still so much more we don't know. Pretty much all abilities in FMA can fit as Transmutation and/or Conjuration Nen abilities.

 

[Shobu_Yoruichi]

No wayyyyyyy


Well, at least as part 3-4 are concerned, I don't know if there are great improvements to the mechanics afterwards.

From what I saw, stands are veeeery diverse and imaginative and that's great but it terms of mechanics of the whole thing Nen is clearly superior. I mean, when you look at stands, you see the plot behind, new abilities and rules that serve the plot. When you look at nen, you see a self-working system whose inherent mechanics are expectly used by the characters to draw the plot forward.

I don't see how Stands can be more versatile than Nen TBH.

Have to say, i'd agree with @The President. Stands are less complex than Nen, but there's fair rules that gives a grand variety of resource to use them, like it was explained here:

Spoiler

Nen cannot evolve, it usually works in a directed way, and has rules that are way to shonen-ish like Alluka's or Gon's berserk mode's one, while Stands come from to magnify the character itself through the story, and the fuses science with occultism, things that Togashi hasn't got to yet because he explains the world more than skills, which obviously gives HxH a advance compared to Jojo, but ability related, i think Stands are more appealing than Nen, much more when users can have more than one skill.

 

[Demonspeed]

I know there are rules for Stands, all I was saying is that I don't find Stand abilities more versatile.

 

[The President]

Well, at least as part 3-4 are concerned, I don't know if there are great improvements to the mechanics afterwards.

There are but by 4 they are already as complex and versatile as stands. Every new part adds on to that versatility.

From what I saw, stands are veeeery diverse and imaginative and that's great but it terms of mechanics of the whole thing Nen is clearly superior. I mean, when you look at stands, you see the plot behind, new abilities and rules that serve the plot. When you look at nen, you see a self-working system whose inherent mechanics are expectly used by the characters to draw the plot forward.

Mechanics? Stands might not have as many sub-categories as nen (even thats debatable), but its sheer versatility is by leaps and bounds above nens. Its got powers ranging from basic fire, to altering temperature, to stopping time, to aging people based on their body temperature, to using hooks that can move through walls, to making yourself into a rope. Stands are the godfather of modern power mechanics, and Nen drew inspiration from it more then any other power mechanic.

I was not thinking about topography, but how interesting the world is. Among everything you listed only deserts have not been seen I think. FMA's world takes inspiration from cultures existing IRL but HxH does both(Kakin, York Shin, NGL, Bapu and other fantastic cultues, fantastic creatures etc.). Real life inspirations and fantastic. And we haven't even explored the DC yet or the official map.

When has a snow location been utilized in HxH? I think thats perhaps the most interesting one that has yet to be used. Those arent cultures, two of those are mafia groups, the other one is a class hierarchy. We havent actually seen any different cultures in HxH yet.

The topography makes the world feel more alive, that most certainly plays into how interesting the world is.

I don't see how Stands can be more versatile than Nen TBH.

They are WAYYY more versatile then Nen. There are literally hundreds of different stands, all of them having damn near no resemblance to one another aside from the odd few that manipulate time (and even then, the way it manipulates it are very different). I mean, only in Jojo are you gonna be able to see battle between beetles fuelled by stands.

 

[Jammin]

So i guess it is kinda sad that it is still tenfolds of times more captivating than the 'Protagonist has feelings for his childhood love but can't admit it' trope FMA likes to employ

Your troll is weak.

A) That's one of a half dozen prominent romantic relationships

B) That's a trope because it's good.

You are oversimplifying things a lot. Yes, Nen is shounen power, just like Alchemy is in FMA. There are rules and limits in all these fictional worlds. I don't remember the details of Alchemy in FMA but as a power system I don't see how it is better than Nen. Nen is more versatile, complex, subtle(the four basics, Nen Categories, advanced techniques, Conditions, the various training methods etc), there is still so much more we don't know. Pretty much all abilities in FMA can fit as Transmutation and/or Conjuration Nen abilities.

I'm simplifying, definitely. But I'm not "over" simplifying. HXH fans just see things through rose colored glasses. Where everything it does is special because...HXH

Aura based power systems like Nen are exactly what Chakra and Reitsu are. As is Magic in most shounen. It's just a vague powerset with vague rules so the author can bend it to whatever mood strikes them. Yoki in Claymore and Youki in Inuyasha are much the same. That's why I call it shounen magic. That's not an insult necessarily but functionally speaking that's what they are.

It's actually more unique when a series doesn't have one of those. One Piece and Full Metal Alchemist are examples of series that don't use that. One Piece relies on Devil Fruit mostly (though it does later add shounen magic in Haki). It power system is based around unique physical traits granted by fruit. Which is not an aura.

FMA's alchemy is not aura based at all. The rules aren't vague either. Those limits are what defines it and makes the combat system so great. Edward Elric can't move faster with it. It doesn't alter his physical abilities at all. He alter's and shapes the base he has around him. That's it. And the same is true of every other character. No emo haxor bullshit. Meaning, it's battles use something much more powerful. Thoughtful writing.

 

[Demonspeed]

There are but by 4 they are already as complex and versatile as stands. Every new part adds on to that versatility.



Mechanics? Stands might not have as many sub-categories as nen (even thats debatable), but its sheer versatility is by leaps and bounds above nens. Its got powers ranging from basic fire, to altering temperature, to stopping time, to aging people based on their body temperature, to using hooks that can move through walls, to making yourself into a rope. Stands are the godfather of modern power mechanics, and Nen drew inspiration from it more then any other power mechanic.

I know that Togashi has been inspired by Araki and that Stand abilities are versatile, but I fail to see what makes them more versatile than Nen. The Stand system has its rules but you don't get to choose your ability, if you are one of the gifted ones who can become a Stand user you just get it, and it can be anything. For Nen abilities, you can develop your ability yourself depending on what you want. Most Stand abilities also work via some psychic being who has a special power. In HxH, Netero's, Knuckle and Razor's abilities are pretty much like most of these Stands, which are the Emission or Manipulation type.

When has a snow location been utilized in HxH? I think thats perhaps the most interesting one that has yet to be used. Those arent cultures, two of those are mafia groups, the other one is a class hierarchy. We havent actually seen any different cultures in HxH yet.

The topography makes the world feel more alive, that most certainly plays into how interesting the world is.

No, I haven't seen snow in HxH. How are NGL's inhabitant's customs not part of their culture? Same for what has been said in East Gorteau, Meteor City and Bapu who are a fantastic tribe represented mainly by Bono? I never said that FMA's world wasn't interesting in the first place, just that I don't find it more interesting as HxH.

They are WAYYY more versatile then Nen. There are literally hundreds of different stands, all of them having damn near no resemblance to one another aside from the odd few that manipulate time (and even then, the way it manipulates it are very different). I mean, only in Jojo are you gonna be able to see battle between beetles fuelled by stands.

I am talking about the system itself, not the number of abilities. The number of abilities and how it works depends on the creativity of the system.

 

[The President]

I know that Togashi has been inspired by Araki and that Stand abilities are versatile, but I fail to see what makes them more versatile than Nen. The Stand system has its rules but you don't get to choose your ability, if you are one of the gifted ones who can become a Stand user you just get it, and it can be anything. For Nen abilities, you can develop your ability yourself depending on what you want. Most Stand abilities also work via some psychic being who has a special power. In HxH, Netero's, Knuckle and Razor's abilities are pretty much like most of these Stands, which are the Emission or Manipulation type.

The stand develops based on the users nature, which is even better. Characters can basically be characterized through their stands alone, which is insane. Yeah, and said psychic powers are a lot more versatile then Nen. As a power mechanic, stands are simply more diverse. Nen could rival Stands if the series itself was as long, but as it stands there simply arent nearly as many different nen abilities as there are different stands.

No, I haven't seen snow in HxH. How are NGL's inhabitant's customs not part of their culture? Same for what has been said in East Gorteau, Meteor City and Bapu who are a fantastic tribe represented mainly by Bono? I never said that FMA's world wasn't interesting in the first place, just that I don't find it more interesting as HxH.

We know more about Xerxes through a flashback then we learn about NGL throughout the entire CA arc. The Bapu are only represented by Bovo as it stands. Meteor City is definitely interesting, wish we got to see more of it. You said FMA doesnt even compare.

I am talking about the system itself, not the number of abilities. The number of abilities and how it works depends on the creativity of the system.

Exactly. Meaning that Stands are far more creative, and by extension more interesting and versatile.

 

[Wowzers]

Well, I finally voted....
I went for FMA. Not because I find it superior in any way to HxH. I didn't factor in the hiatus x hiatus thing either.
I voted for it because of a completely unfair reason... FMA is a complete story. You can sit down and read the whole story from beginning to end.
That is a totally, dominatingly, unfair reason.
I almost feel "complete" and "continuing series" should be separated categories because of this.

Both series are amazing works and deserve your full attention.

By the way, the hiatus issue should actually count in HxH's FAVOR not as a negative. The reason for that is: Just how good does a series have to be for legions of fans to literally wait YEARS for the next chapter... without dropping it? Pretty much any other series would lose all its fanbase. HxH lost any casually interested ones a long time ago, all that's left are the Time-Tested Legions of Fans of this series that treat the hiatus's as a personal eccentricity of the author.

 

[Demonspeed]

I'm simplifying, definitely. But I'm not "over" simplifying. HXH fans just see things through rose colored glasses. Where everything it does is special because...HXH

Aura based power systems like Nen are exactly what Chakra and Reitsu are. As is Magic in most shounen. It's just a vague powerset with vague rules so the author can bend it to whatever mood strikes them. Yoki in Claymore and Youki in Inuyasha are much the same. That's why I call it shounen magic. That's not an insult necessarily but functionally speaking that's what they are.

It's actually more unique when a series doesn't have one of those. One Piece and Full Metal Alchemist are examples of series that don't use that. One Piece relies on Devil Fruit mostly (though it does later add shounen magic in Haki). It power system is based around unique physical traits granted by fruit. Which is not an aura.

I didn't take that as an insult or anything. I do agree that it's shonen magic but that's what Alchemy is in FMA as well. The mangaka establishes his power system and creates the rules. At the basic level that's what they are.

FMA's alchemy is not aura based at all. The rules aren't vague either. Those limits are what defines it and makes the combat system so great. Edward Elric can't move faster with it. It doesn't alter his physical abilities at all. He alter's and shapes the base he has around him. That's it. And the same is true of every other character. No emo haxor bullshit. Meaning, it's battles use something much more powerful. Thoughtful writing.

How are Nen rules vague, there is a part of it that's mysterious but we know how it works in general. I don't see how most of them are vague either. The difference is complexity. In FMA there were characters who were particularly strong because of their Alchemy(Mustang, Scar, Father, Hohenheim etc). Superior physical abilities also mattered. Characters who were able to use Alchemy without Transmutation Circles also had an advantage overall, these kind of hierarchy always exist.

The stand develops based on the users nature, which is even better. Characters can basically be characterized through their stands alone, which is insane. Yeah, and said psychic powers are a lot more versatile then Nen. As a power mechanic, stands are simply more diverse. Nen could rival Stands if the series itself was as long, but as it stands there simply arent nearly as many different nen abilities as there are different stands.

So, you are saying that Stands are more versatile because Araki showed more abilities? By that logic Ki in Dragon Ball or Cosmo is Saint Seiya ar more versatile than most because of the number of techniques displayed. A Stand User can't choose his power, he just gets it, and most Stands are psychic creatures while a Nen user has more freedom to create the kind of ability he wants, and it generally depends on his personality and personal experience.

We know more about Xerxes through a flashback then we learn about NGL throughout the entire CA arc. The Bapu are only represented by Bovo as it stands. Meteor City is definitely interesting, wish we got to see more of it. You said FMA doesnt even compare.

You are talking about depth world building here, I was talking about the world itself. I don't remember what they said about Xerxes in details but having an interesting world doesn't mean that there is good world building. Both FMA and HxH have good world building, but I find HxH's world more interesting because of the fantastic elements in it. Bono is not the only representative of his tribe, we got trivia about his tribe thanks to him and he is the only one with a rather important role so far. However, what we learned about his tribe, their simple existence, adds something to HxH's world.

 

[The President]

So, you are saying that Stands are more versatile because Araki showed more abilities? By that logic Ki in Dragon Ball or Cosmo is Saint Seiya ar more versatile than most because of the number of techniques displayed. A Stand User can't choose his power, he just gets it, and most Stands are psychic creatures while a Nen user has more freedom to create the kind of ability he wants, and it generally depends on his personality and personal experience.

No not really, the amount of different techniques displayed in those series is actually pretty minimal even compared to series like Naruto and Bleach, let alone the likes of Jojo. Not to mention, there is the factor of variability here as well. The techniques in DB are 99% just aura blasts, whereas in Jojo every single power has virtually no resemblance to the others (obviously a few exceptions like the aforementioned time abilities, but thats inconsequential in the grand scope of stands).

But Stands are not random either, it shapes itself based on the persons characteristics or needs. I dont see how a Nen user having some degree of freedom in choosing what he wants is any better, or how it makes for better fights.

You are talking about depth world building here, I was talking about the world itself. I don't remember what they said about Xerxes in details but having an interesting world doesn't mean that there is good world building. Both FMA and HxH have good world building, but I find HxH's world more interesting because of the fantastic elements in it. Bono is not the only representative of his tribe, we got trivia about his tribe thanks to him and he is the only one with a rather important role so far. However, what we learned about his tribe, their simple existence, adds something to HxH's world.

Well the world that is created certainly plays a big role in world building. I dont disagree that the existence of Bovos tribe adds something to the HxH world, but we need more of that.

 

[Skylent]

Have to say, i'd agree with @The President. Stands are less complex than Nen, but there's fair rules that gives a grand variety of resource to use them, like it was explained here:

Spoiler

Nen cannot evolve, it usually works in a directed way, and has rules that are way to shonen-ish like Alluka's or Gon's berserk mode's one, while Stands come from to magnify the character itself through the story, and the fuses science with occultism, things that Togashi hasn't got to yet because he explains the world more than skills, which obviously gives HxH a advance compared to Jojo, but ability related, i think Stands are more appealing than Nen, much more when users can have more than one skill.

Well, I think that's more about tastes at this point. Like, stands are more impressive (various, "flashy" (not as a critique), powerful). Also Nen's skills do have a reason to be related to the characters. This can lead to long debates to interpret where is a skill from and what does it mean about the character.
Regarding Alluka and Gon

There are but by 4 they are already as complex and versatile as stands. Every new part adds on to that versatility.

They are WAYYY more versatile then Nen. There are literally hundreds of different stands, all of them having damn near no resemblance to one another aside from the odd few that manipulate time (and even then, the way it manipulates it are very different). I mean, only in Jojo are you gonna be able to see battle between beetles fuelled by stands.

Mechanics? Stands might not have as many sub-categories as nen (even thats debatable), but its sheer versatility is by leaps and bounds above nens. Its got powers ranging from basic fire, to altering temperature, to stopping time, to aging people based on their body temperature, to using hooks that can move through walls, to making yourself into a rope. Stands are the godfather of modern power mechanics, and Nen drew inspiration from it more then any other power mechanic.

That's not mechanics, that's creativity. Obviously Araki has a huuuge imagination, but I was talking about how the system is articulated and how well the different powers articulate with each other. Yes there are rules in stands but it is not at the level of the limitation/condition system in HxH. By the way, it is logic that Jojo has a larger range of diverse power, first because it is longer (6 parts with stands) and secondly because the fewer limitations allow to less balanced and thus more diverse powers. HxH's abilities can't be overpowered because of the limitation system.


Also, HxH may very well have been inspired by Jojo (ok it has x) ) but it doesn't mean that it can't do better.

The stand develops based on the users nature, which is even better. Characters can basically be characterized through their stands alone, which is insane. Yeah, and said psychic powers are a lot more versatile then Nen. As a power mechanic, stands are simply more diverse. Nen could rival Stands if the series itself was as long, but as it stands there simply arent nearly as many different nen abilities as there are different stands.

Nen abilities as well are inspired and wrought through the user's personality and past experiences. The process in making a hatsu is very well thought out as well and . Heck this is even used in-story by master nen users who try to guess not only the other's category thanks to their personality but even their ability.

 

[Jammin]

I didn't take that as an insult or anything. I do agree that it's shonen magic but that's what Alchemy is in FMA as well. The mangaka establishes his power system and creates the rules. At the basic level that's what they are.

How are Nen rules vague, there is a part of it that's mysterious but we know how it works in general. I don't see how most of them are vague either. The difference is complexity. In FMA there were characters who were particularly strong because of their Alchemy(Mustang, Scar, Father, Hohenheim etc). Superior physical abilities also mattered. Characters who were able to use Alchemy without Transmutation Circles also had an advantage overall, these kind of hierarchy always exist.

But they exist withing limitations. Equivalent exchange forces fights to be about changing what's there to begin with. So they can't just do anything with it. This in turn makes the fights more interesting because once you know what a character can do. That character CAN'T do anything more than that unless they think of a clever way to use their particular skill and what is around them.

That is Nen's, and a lot of aura based systems, main problem. There are very few limitations and it's effected by emotion. Meaning it can do whatever Togashi wants or needs it to do and also creates essentially an asspull generator to fall back on.

It's the classic Dragon Ball problem.

Togashi even tried to address the problem with his vows and such but since it doesn't apply to everything and it's repercussions are vague it doesn't really help all that much. Because as long as a character getting emotional can turn them into a demigod. That's shounen magic.