Quarterfinal Laxus vs Zeref

[LaGOAT]

It's funny how people say we are making imaginary feats for laxus but y'all making some for zeref and even august too. Yes laxus can turn to lighting he did va msytogan and hades it's the same reason y August Didn't use the CS magic against gildartz or Cana? PIS/CIS just becuase he didn't use it vs Jura doesn't mean he can't use it. @Pheromone lol those spells u mention isn't gonna beat laxus. Look what jellal did to acno? Not saying jelllal is on his lvl. But he manage to get some hits on him despite being weaker and since this is restricted zeref I don't see that happen @Enima yes he did go reread the fight against hades he clearly used it to avoid hades attack

 

[Invel > Zeref]

He erases his existence to make his magic more powerful, kinda like 3rd origin. It's more than Gray's own power. And I should remind you that Gray is not leagues below Zeref. He fought END(END one shotted Dimaria)

By your logic, Fairy Law is also more than Makarov's own power because he had to sacrifice his life force to do it. You can't use those feats to put Makarov on Laxus' level

But It was due to his MP right. Elfman looks much bigger and stronger than human Acno, do you think he can rip off Human acno's arm. MP also affects physical capabilities. Natsu was much weaker (Physically) in edolas because he didn't have any magical power.

Having a lot of magic power does not automatically translate to greater physical capabilities. Just look at Neinhart and the other spriggan who would get owned in CQC. Igneel has dragon level strength, speed, and durability because he is physically a dragon. When he ripped Acno's arm off he used his dragon strength and sharp teeth to do it, no magic involved

 

[Enima]

It's funny how people say we are making imaginary feats for laxus but y'all making some for zeref and even august too. Yes laxus can turn to lighting he did va msytogan and hades it's the same reason y August Didn't use the CS magic against gildartz or Cana? PIS/CIS just becuase he didn't use it vs Jura doesn't mean he can't use it. @Pheromone lol those spells u mention isn't gonna beat laxus. Look what jellal did to acno? Not saying jelllal is on his lvl. But he manage to get some hits on him despite being weaker and since this is restricted zeref I don't see that happen @Enima yes he did go reread the fight against hades he clearly used it to avoid hades attack

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He wasn't able to avoid that attack.

 

[Jean Grey]

hey I'm on neutral ground here

just saying he can turn into lightning though I think he is only intangible to physical attacks and considering that Zeref suffered from major PIS made by Hiro, he will engage in physical combat.

 

[coolerthanzerok]

I'm having difficulty like a newb with the rich text editor, but Laxus dodged a punch from Natsu with Lightning Body in chapter 69 page 12. If anyone wants to post it I'd be grateful.

 

[Invel > Zeref]

I was talking about it's application in combat. Has he ever used it to dodge an attack?

Yeah, he did. Read chapter 120

 

[Enima]

By your logic, Fairy Law is also more than Makarov's own power because he had to sacrifice his life force to do it. You can't use those feats to put Makarov on Laxus' level


Having a lot of magic power does not automatically translate to greater physical capabilities. Just look at Neinhart and the other spriggan who would get owned in CQC. Igneel has dragon level strength, speed, and durability because he is physically a dragon. When he ripped Acno's arm off he used his dragon strength and sharp teeth to do it, no magic involved

LOL, I never said he was on Laxus' level. I just proved that he's powerful. Zeref was able to catch him with no difficulty so he should be able to catch Laxus with low difficulty.

So that huge god that Natsu one shotted can rip acno's arm.

I'm having difficulty like a newb with the rich text editor, but Laxus dodged a punch from Natsu with Lightning Body in chapter 69 page 12. If anyone wants to post it I'd be grateful.

But it doesn't prove that Laxus can become intangible

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 4, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 4, 2017 ---

Yeah, he did. Read chapter 120

Doesn't show he was intangible.

 

[coolerthanzerok]

Yeah, he did. Read chapter 120

This is a perfect example, because Mistgun was trying to bind him. Super relevant.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 4, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 4, 2017 ---

LOL, I never said he was on Laxus' level. I just proved that he's powerful. Zeref was able to catch him with no difficulty so he should be able to catch Laxus with low difficulty.

So that huge god that Natsu one shotted can rip acno's arm.


But it doesn't prove that Laxus can become intangible

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 4, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 4, 2017 ---

Doesn't show he was intangible.

It does show that the can dodge binding abilities which is the only thing we're arguing. No one is saying Laxus can't take damage at all, but he can become temporarily intangible allowing for some degree of attack nullification on top of stupidly good movement feats for dodging and attacking.

The argument is that he actually turns into lightning, and lightning is by definition intangible, so it require a specific feat. I might argue, from observation, that it does require him to *move* in order to become intangible, because lightning is movement of charge, but it's still definitely non-solid. I think if he smashed into a magical attack it might even still effect him, but the idea is that he'd be slipping free of any bonds, not trying to overpower them.

Also, thank you for posting that.

 

[Enima]

This is a perfect example, because Mistgun was trying to bind him. Super relevant.

He got away before the Jutsu was complete(Mystogen was busy doing hand signs, Zeref doesn't need those). He was never trapped in the first place. What Laxus did can be accomplished by an extremely fast mage. He never used Intangibility to get away, he used speed.

 

[Invel > Zeref]

Doesn't show he was intangible.

I am only explaining this ONE more time. The ability to turn into lightning means he has the ability to turn intangible because LIGHTNING IS INTANGIBLE

LOL, I never said he was on Laxus' level. I just proved that he's powerful. Zeref was able to catch him with no difficulty so he should be able to catch Laxus with low difficulty.

So that huge god that Natsu one shotted can rip acno's arm.

There is a huge gap between Laxus and Makarov. If you can't wrap your head around that then there is no point in debating with you. No the huge god can't do that because it has dragon level size but NOT strength.

 

[Enima]

I am only explaining this ONE more time. The ability to turn into lightning means he has the ability to turn intangible because LIGHTNING IS INTANGIBLE

You can't say with no Feats Bruh. Are we allowed to say stuff with no feats, like death magic kills people when it makes contact?

There is a huge gap between Laxus and Makarov. If you can't wrap your head around that then there is no point in debating with you. No the huge god can't do that because it has dragon level size but NOT strength.

Huge difference huh?. Ok I change my mind, Zeref can catch him with Medium difficulty

In that world MP is pretty much correlated to strength. show me one person with High Mp and low strength.

 

[LaGOAT]

@Enima by ur logic zeref no diff Irene or august becuase he caught makarov that technique. Just becuase he got makarov doesnt mean he it work on some1 stronger 2. Ur agreeing gray=zeref?

 

[coolerthanzerok]

You can't say with no Feats Bruh. Are we allowed to say stuff with no feats, like death magic kills people when it makes contact?


Huge difference huh?. Ok I change my mind, Zeref can catch him with Medium difficulty

In that world MP is pretty much correlated to strength. show me one person with High Mp and low strength.

But turning into lightning IS A FEAT. Are you arguing that lightning might be tangible? No one has ever hit him out of lightning form because you can't catch lightning, simply by definition. Physics applying normally doesn't need to be a feat. His intangibility isn't like Enel from One Piece, he has to consciously and actively use it, but that doesn't change the fact that when he does, he *is* lightning. Even if he's *not* intangible (which I'm not conceding) he is literally uncatchable because no one has shown the speed feats to catch lightning, so it's functionally identical. It means that when using Lightning Body, he's not getting hit or trapped.

Also, Mavis and Cana any time she's not using Fairy Glitter have ostensibly high MP and low strength.

 

[BluePegasus]

Ur agreing gray=zeref

I'm lurking in this thread but I don't really understand why you link this statement to @Enima. It feels rather random.

 

[LaGOAT]

I'm lurking in this thread but I don't really understand why you link this statement to @Enima. It feels rather random.

Reread the post he talking how makarov=laxus becuase he killed huge fodders with FL

 

[Enima]

@Enima by ur logic zeref no diff Irene or august becuase he caught makarov that technique. Just becuase he got makarov doesnt mean he it work on some1 stronger 2. Ur agreeing gray=zeref?

But those guys have already proved their Magical power. August beat OS alone and would've beaten Gildarts too. Irene changed the geography of an entire continent. Laxus' feats aren't as impressive as those. And no!, I said Gray isn't as weak as people are making him out to be. At this point he's probably the 6th strongest in Ishgar.

Dude I specifically mentioned that Makarov was weaker than Laxus

But turning into lightning IS A FEAT. Are you arguing that lightning might be tangible? No one has ever hit him out of lightning form because you can't catch lightning, simply by definition. Physics applying normally doesn't need to be a feat. His intangibility isn't like Enel from One Piece, he has to consciously and actively use it, but that doesn't change the fact that when he does, he *is* lightning. Even if he's *not* intangible (which I'm not conceding) he is literally uncatchable because no one has shown the speed feats to catch lightning, so it's functionally identical. It means that when using Lightning Body, he's not getting hit or trapped.

Also, Mavis and Cana any time she's not using Fairy Glitter have ostensibly high MP and low strength.

You forgot that Enel can be hit using Haki. Magic is the Haki of Fairy tail. Zeref uses magic so.....

Cana's Fairy glitter didn't even scratch blue note.... and I honestly don't know what the hell's up with mavis. She probably can't use her MP since she died Maybe...

 

[coolerthanzerok]

But those guys have already proved their Magical power. August beat OS alone and would've beaten Gildarts too. Irene changed the geography of an entire continent. Laxus' feats aren't as impressive as those. And no!, I said Gray isn't as weak as people are making him out to be. At this point he's probably the 6th strongest in Ishgar.

Dude I specifically mentioned that Makarov was weaker than Laxus


You forgot that Enel can be hit using Haki. Magic is the Haki of Fairy tail. Zeref uses magic so.....

Cana's Fairy glitter didn't even scratch blue note.... and I honestly don't know what the hell's up with mavis. She probably can't use her MP since she died Maybe...

Regardless, lightning is basically unhittable. Laxus hasn't been shown just standing there having attacks phase through him, but his evasion feats are functionally identical. Even if he gets trapped by that binding spell, becoming lightning would allow him to slip out. And "magic is the haki of Fairy Tail"? Regardless of how plausible I find that, now who's being featless?

For what it's worth, I've greatly enjoyed this discussion because I think people on both sides have reasoned extremely well. I think three are reasons, based on feats, to vote Zeref, I just don't find those arguments to be *enough*.

 

[BluePegasus]

Reread the post he talking how makarov=laxus becuase he killed huge fodders with FL

And what does that have to do with Gray = Zeref?

 

[Enima]

Regardless, lightning is basically unhittable. Laxus hasn't been shown just standing there having attacks phase through him, but his evasion feats are functionally identical. Even if he gets trapped by that binding spell, becoming lightning would allow him to slip out. And "magic is the haki of Fairy Tail"? Regardless of how plausible I find that, now who's being featless?

For what it's worth, I've greatly enjoyed this discussion because I think people on both sides have reasoned extremely well. I think three are reasons, based on feats, to vote Zeref, I just don't find those arguments to be *enough*.

Exactly! An extremely fast mage could replicate what Laxus does. But Zeref's spell is instantaneous, Laxus couldn't dodge hades' spell so how can he dodge Zeref's spell.

Both worlds have basic fighting techniques such as physical attacks (e.g. punching) both Haki and Magic are abilities that only a small amount of people use. That was just a stupid example that just came across my mind at that time, sorry. Laxus has never used this "tangibility" against anybody in his life even in despereate situations, which implies that such ability doesn't exist

 

[coolerthanzerok]

Exactly! An extremely fast mage could replicate what Laxus does. But Zeref's spell is instantaneous, Laxus couldn't dodge hades' spell so how can he dodge Zeref's spell.

Both worlds have basic fighting techniques such as physical attacks (e.g. punching) both Haki and Magic are abilities that only a small amount of people use. That was just a stupid example that just came across my mind at that time, sorry. Laxus has never used this "tangibility" against anybody in his life even in despereate situations, which implies that such ability doesn't exist

My general point is that when he becomes lightning he's been shown traveling along surfaces and as bolts of varying sizes, loose enough for him to slip the bonds unharmed. I don't see that attack being a relevant tool against Lexus for his ability to dodge or, having been trapped, escape quickly. Much faster than Natsu. If Zeref hadn't pissed Natsu off while he was bound, Zeref could've just killed him. Laxus has been shown evading Mistgun's similar binding technique by becoming lightning, I have no reason not to believe (based on feats, that is) that he couldn't do the same to Zeref.

Also, I would argue that almost every attack he takes without using this ability is an example of PiS which is also banned in this tournament. I find the strategy of "zip around using lightning form only stopping for momentary nukes" to be overpowered, legitimate, and a thing that ruins exciting story telling. When he fight Natsu he had no reason to engage in a punching match with Natsu, but did anyways. Same with Jura. But that's just not as fun to watch, so he caught a case of the stupid.