Affiliation: Town
Short Description
A lighter version of persecutor, a role that still self confirms without killing, instead it makes a target unlynchable for 1 day phase.
Long Description/Idea/Premise/Scope
The idea is to have more roles with an active ability that don't cause extra death to have less vanilla townies in the game without affecting the game balance number wise, the role suggestion is to promote this concept and lawyer is an example of that.
Lawyer gives a player the ability to go against town and force them to not kill a player, it can be used early to self confirm or take the risk to keep it secret to use it in the last day were it is the most powerful.
It could be a secondary role or an unsigned role but I'm not sure how good of an idea that is.
The reason we would want this to be unsigned secondary is to remove the self confirmation part, but hosts could also be trusted with the balance of self confirmation roles.
Priority/RoleType/Interactions/other Specifics
Day action.
Can't be used in the last hour.
Voting isn't reset so any player that locked can't change their vote.
Short Description
A lighter version of persecutor, a role that still self confirms without killing, instead it makes a target unlynchable for 1 day phase.
Long Description/Idea/Premise/Scope
The idea is to have more roles with an active ability that don't cause extra death to have less vanilla townies in the game without affecting the game balance number wise, the role suggestion is to promote this concept and lawyer is an example of that.
Lawyer gives a player the ability to go against town and force them to not kill a player, it can be used early to self confirm or take the risk to keep it secret to use it in the last day were it is the most powerful.
It could be a secondary role or an unsigned role but I'm not sure how good of an idea that is.
The reason we would want this to be unsigned secondary is to remove the self confirmation part, but hosts could also be trusted with the balance of self confirmation roles.
Priority/RoleType/Interactions/other Specifics
Day action.
Can't be used in the last hour.
Voting isn't reset so any player that locked can't change their vote.
I like this idea, but I had the same idea even with the same name a couple years ago, together with the judge. The council smashed both the argument that a role being able to single-handily effect voting in such a large way by granting immunity or stopping the day lynching all together is far too much power for a role. So I don't think this gonna get accept now. :c
I do have a new idea for Mafia though, a suggestion, that might change the way we play Mafia forever:
Have the Mafia Boss become an active role!
Now before everyone loses their mind over the heresy I spoke, let's look at the current Mafia Boss role:
Let's be honest, we all know that Mafia decisions are done in majority, those days the MB hardly ever has a "final" say because that just no longer his business. Neither is he really a leader depending on who got MB as the MB holder might step back for a more veteran player taking charge no matter his role or usually because the active mafia role holders got their own ideas and often don't need the input of the MB to function properly.
All in all it turned the MB into a "innocent Mafia" for det investigation who can sometimes be used for kills and that's it.
Thus I propose to give the Mafia Boss a unique type of action which we didn't had so far in the game: Giving Orders
It would look like this:
The idea is to a) give Boss some strategic power and b) to have the unskilled Mafia not only be a role for Mafia (which gets hardly used for obvious reasons by hosts) but actually a feature to Mafia: Lose a role for an extra kill and also lose a reliable killer for future nights.
This way Mafia can actually try and advance games by their own account depending on when to make use of their boss ability. They also have to figure out when it is acceptable to lose what role forever for a single extra kill. They have to know if a mafia member who town became sus of could be made more use of if his role gets sacrificed to land an extra kill before the mafia gets lynched by town, if they can keep the mafia alive long enough.
I believe while it sounds strong to be able to order extra kills, that ability comes at a fair cost since it costs the Mafia group both a role they could have made use of and they lose a reliable killer due the unskilled Member rank down. Also that ability can be traced by spy so if the mafia dies as unskilled a good spy could tell town that he saw x target y that night and y died a unskilled mafia. Meaning it gives MB a 3rd way to be found out by town besides det and spy watching him doing a kill action. Worse if the MB were to die first, the town would have a lead-on with the spy's findings on a fellow mafia since the guy did not die due the MB action making him a certain mafia.
So this extra kill does not come cheaply. But used correctly it could turn the tides in a match that mafia might be about to lose. And Mafia does lose most matches because it is really difficult to stay alive when town got so many good roles and to stay undetected when it is hard to fake so many different roles. Giving Mafia a little extra strategic help could change the way we used to play Mafia into a more fun and competitive battle between town and mafia.
Since the risk of using MB's order is so great, I would like to see this action be in the Priority 1 category for following reasons:
1) It's the Boss, the Boss action should have the same standing as an escort and a prostitute but with each still having a 50% chance to distract the great boss of the mafia gang.
2)It seems more fitting and fair than a Prio2 or 3 Boss action getting blocked 100% with mafia losing the chance of an extra kill when it already has so many costs attached to it.
3) Both the Boss and the Mafia will be more ready to trust into the benefit of a Boss order when they know it will be done at the highest priority, meaning it became the third role in Mafia with a prio 1 action.
If you say that it is too strong to have a mafia gang with a Boss, an escort (a role no Boss would want to sacrifice), a mafia det (a role a boss would consider only mid to late game to sacrifice) and a Strongman (a role that can easily be sacrificed for an extra kill once used up) then I disagree as there are plenty roles Mafia might want to hold on to. Plus with the way Order is set up by being only able to order one Mafia at a time, the mafias losing their roles and the mafia gang getting filled with unreliable killers after their extra kills are used up, the downsides of this action keep the power of an extra 2nd faction kill by Mafia in balance.
However if you do still say, no way hombre, then I propose that this action becomes a once-per-game action which however in return is unblockable and untraceable since the extra mafia killer can still be lynched before doing his extra kill or blocked during his extra kill.
Personally I find a Mafia Boss with this kind of action that he can only used based on the amount of living role-having Mafia members far more interesting, engaging and tactical challenging than a one-time use that mafia would then mostly only use when they are close to winning. Whereas in the first case they could use it early and steadily but at the risk of the Boss becoming the leader of only unskilled Mafias with him the last reliable killer.
I hope the High Council takes my suggestion for Mafia Boss in earnest and gives him a shot. I'd love to see a match with a Boss in the midst of all of it like that and I'm sure both town and mafia would find it similar interesting, whenever they got the role, play with it in a team or play against it.
PS: I also noticed we no longer have a regular Mafia member, so we might wanna change the current explanation for Unskilled Mafia Member to be more fitting and less confusing since we no longer have the regular Mafia Member role.
I like this idea, but I had the same idea even with the same name a couple years ago, together with the judge. The council smashed both the argument that a role being able to single-handily effect voting in such a large way by granting immunity or stopping the day lynching all together is far too much power for a role. So I don't think this gonna get accept now. :c
I do have a new idea for Mafia though, a suggestion, that might change the way we play Mafia forever:
Have the Mafia Boss become an active role!
Now before everyone loses their mind over the heresy I spoke, let's look at the current Mafia Boss role:
Let's be honest, we all know that Mafia decisions are done in majority, those days the MB hardly ever has a "final" say because that just no longer his business. Neither is he really a leader depending on who got MB as the MB holder might step back for a more veteran player taking charge no matter his role or usually because the active mafia role holders got their own ideas and often don't need the input of the MB to function properly.
All in all it turned the MB into a "innocent Mafia" for det investigation who can sometimes be used for kills and that's it.
Thus I propose to give the Mafia Boss a unique type of action which we didn't had so far in the game: Giving Orders
It would look like this:
The idea is to a) give Boss some strategic power and b) to have the unskilled Mafia not only be a role for Mafia (which gets hardly used for obvious reasons by hosts) but actually a feature to Mafia: Lose a role for an extra kill and also lose a reliable killer for future nights.
This way Mafia can actually try and advance games by their own account depending on when to make use of their boss ability. They also have to figure out when it is acceptable to lose what role forever for a single extra kill. They have to know if a mafia member who town became sus of could be made more use of if his role gets sacrificed to land an extra kill before the mafia gets lynched by town, if they can keep the mafia alive long enough.
I believe while it sounds strong to be able to order extra kills, that ability comes at a fair cost since it costs the Mafia group both a role they could have made use of and they lose a reliable killer due the unskilled Member rank down. Also that ability can be traced by spy so if the mafia dies as unskilled a good spy could tell town that he saw x target y that night and y died a unskilled mafia. Meaning it gives MB a 3rd way to be found out by town besides det and spy watching him doing a kill action. Worse if the MB were to die first, the town would have a lead-on with the spy's findings on a fellow mafia since the guy did not die due the MB action making him a certain mafia.
So this extra kill does not come cheaply. But used correctly it could turn the tides in a match that mafia might be about to lose. And Mafia does lose most matches because it is really difficult to stay alive when town got so many good roles and to stay undetected when it is hard to fake so many different roles. Giving Mafia a little extra strategic help could change the way we used to play Mafia into a more fun and competitive battle between town and mafia.
Since the risk of using MB's order is so great, I would like to see this action be in the Priority 1 category for following reasons:
1) It's the Boss, the Boss action should have the same standing as an escort and a prostitute but with each still having a 50% chance to distract the great boss of the mafia gang.
2)It seems more fitting and fair than a Prio2 or 3 Boss action getting blocked 100% with mafia losing the chance of an extra kill when it already has so many costs attached to it.
3) Both the Boss and the Mafia will be more ready to trust into the benefit of a Boss order when they know it will be done at the highest priority, meaning it became the third role in Mafia with a prio 1 action.
If you say that it is too strong to have a mafia gang with a Boss, an escort (a role no Boss would want to sacrifice), a mafia det (a role a boss would consider only mid to late game to sacrifice) and a Strongman (a role that can easily be sacrificed for an extra kill once used up) then I disagree as there are plenty roles Mafia might want to hold on to. Plus with the way Order is set up by being only able to order one Mafia at a time, the mafias losing their roles and the mafia gang getting filled with unreliable killers after their extra kills are used up, the downsides of this action keep the power of an extra 2nd faction kill by Mafia in balance.
However if you do still say, no way hombre, then I propose that this action becomes a once-per-game action which however in return is unblockable and untraceable since the extra mafia killer can still be lynched before doing his extra kill or blocked during his extra kill.
Personally I find a Mafia Boss with this kind of action that he can only used based on the amount of living role-having Mafia members far more interesting, engaging and tactical challenging than a one-time use that mafia would then mostly only use when they are close to winning. Whereas in the first case they could use it early and steadily but at the risk of the Boss becoming the leader of only unskilled Mafias with him the last reliable killer.
I hope the High Council takes my suggestion for Mafia Boss in earnest and gives him a shot. I'd love to see a match with a Boss in the midst of all of it like that and I'm sure both town and mafia would find it similar interesting, whenever they got the role, play with it in a team or play against it.
PS: I also noticed we no longer have a regular Mafia member, so we might wanna change the current explanation for Unskilled Mafia Member to be more fitting and less confusing since we no longer have the regular Mafia Member role.
Forgot about this. Imo, too OP. Doesn‘t matter if you trade a role upfront, this existing would make balancing game from host pov pretty difficult due to needing to measure # of possible kills and game-speed. And for the game, it‘s too strong since every mafia role is worth trading for extra kills, at likely every stage of the game. Mafia meta would change too much to focus on discarding roles in which order for the purpose of faster wins.
Changing Boss to do something else is an alright idea but this ain‘t it.
Short Description
A lighter version of persecutor, a role that still self confirms without killing, instead it makes a target unlynchable for 1 day phase.
Long Description/Idea/Premise/Scope
The idea is to have more roles with an active ability that don't cause extra death to have less vanilla townies in the game without affecting the game balance number wise, the role suggestion is to promote this concept and lawyer is an example of that.
Lawyer gives a player the ability to go against town and force them to not kill a player, it can be used early to self confirm or take the risk to keep it secret to use it in the last day were it is the most powerful.
It could be a secondary role or an unsigned role but I'm not sure how good of an idea that is.
The reason we would want this to be unsigned secondary is to remove the self confirmation part, but hosts could also be trusted with the balance of self confirmation roles.
Priority/RoleType/Interactions/other Specifics
Day action.
Can't be used in the last hour.
Voting isn't reset so any player that locked can't change their vote.
I think there was a suggestion like this before, not sure if it was called Judge or something else. Big problem with the „stop lynch“ concept is that it doesn‘t advance the gamestate for town. Only ever useful in a last day of 1 mafia vs 3 townies, letting the mafia kill again to narrow down the options to 1 mafia vs 2 townies to get higher chance of lynching correctly.
In all other usages it just delays whoever would‘ve gotten lynched to a later day with no positive gain.
This can be OP in the right situation, like previous game where the Spy claim by the TP only threw Town into chaos but not the Serial Killer who knew for sure it was a lie.
Knowing the game setup is very strong, tho Serial Killer is a lone scum so it needed something to work off.
My suggestion is to tweak this rule a bit to make it less all powerful.
- SK is giving a list of role types: 3 Protection roles, 2 Investigative roles, 2 roleless, 3 scum roles.
With this if someone claims a role that isn't in the game, it is still a bit ambiguous and not an auto win.
If that is too much of a nerf then SK can PM the host once per phase to reveal one of the role types.
- SK: Reveal A protection role
- Host: Bulletproof
Which works kind of like the SK has M.Det.
Or no list for the SK, but SK can PM the host to investigate a player every night or day phase.
D1
SK - Investigate GrySun
Host - GrySun is townie
N1
SK - Kill GrySun!
In fact, buffing the SK with a bonus action M.Det (untracable or not), allows for more skill based play than a free full reveal.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Another way to balance it, is to keep the SK with a full reveal, but reveal the SK as well at the beggining of the game.
In that case, players would be able to counter the SK full vision by taking that into consideration, a player behaving suspeciously because they know too much, should be detectable.
1- Politician can now self confirm asap.
2- Kind of goes against the nature of the role, which isn't just moving a vote but rather forcing someone into a specific interaction and seeing what develops from that.
If you remove the dynamic in 2 then it's just kind of a toxic role to have around.
1- Politician can now self confirm asap.
2- Kind of goes against the nature of the role, which isn't just moving a vote but rather forcing someone into a specific interaction and seeing what develops from that.
If you remove the dynamic in 2 then it's just kind of a toxic role to have around.
What about making not the politicians action public but the result public. Kind of like sickly? “Hardy is forced to votelock on GB for today’s lynch at day start?” It’s kind of funny you call it toxic because the idea comes from the mafia kdrama where there’s a bully character who is townie that tries to force people to vote his way. And it could be either alliance. Or maybe I just recreate the role. And propose a completely new role. Any advice is appreciated. O/
What about making not the politicians action public but the result public. Kind of like sickly? “Hardy is forced to votelock on GB for today’s lynch at day start?” It’s kind of funny you call it toxic because the idea comes from the mafia kdrama where there’s a bully character who is townie that tries to force people to vote his way. And it could be either alliance. Or maybe I just recreate the role. And propose a completely new role. Any advice is appreciated. O/
Right but that goes back to the role itself being toxic.
We are kind of trying to come up with ways to increase player engagement and interactions, having yet another role that removes the vote of a player (which is the essence of the game) goes against this sentiment.
I wouldn't say the effect itself is a bad idea and may work in an specific mechanic. But we have to think how would players react to it and if it leads the game towards a better design that encourages discussion.
Right but that goes back to the role itself being toxic.
We are kind of trying to come up with ways to increase player engagement and interactions, having yet another role that removes the vote of a player (which is the essence of the game) goes against this sentiment.
I wouldn't say the effect itself is a bad idea and may work in an specific mechanic. But we have to think how would players react to it and if it leads the game towards a better design that encourages discussion.
Most people liked the role of politician. And the mafia gambler too. The manipulation of the votes. It doesn’t remove it the vote like sickly. It directs it to a more valid target. Especially when players who like math and spreadsheets wanted to use to to balance a lynch more toward something or push people to do something. It was getting people to comply with the mandatory vote change that had some people throwing arms. Making it more public to improve it, but I will think on it some more and make it more fun. Hey even prostitute can be toxic if someone sits on one person all game.
Most people liked the role of politician. And the mafia gambler too. The manipulation of the votes. It doesn’t remove it the vote like sickly. It directs it to a more valid target. Especially when players who like math and spreadsheets wanted to use to to balance a lynch more toward something or push people to do something. It was getting people to comply with the mandatory vote change that had some people throwing arms. Making it more public to improve it, but I will think on it some more and make it more fun. Hey even prostitute can be toxic if someone sits on one person all game.
People liked politician based on what? From the games I played that involved it, the players would always try to find a way around the impediment for claiming it or not, turning that part of the role a hassle.
Whoever was the politician probably felt like they had a ton of control but then how did everyone else feel with that role around?
People liked politician based on what? From the games I played that involved it, the players would always try to find a way around the impediment for claiming it or not, turning that part of the role a hassle.
Whoever was the politician probably felt like they had a ton of control but then how did everyone else feel with that role around?
Sometimes they even would find ways of working around the claim even when there was no politician in the game. Idk. Vote effecting roles are interesting to me, but I wish we had more variety then noble/sickly. Don’t worry, Sanse!!!! I will think on it and create something better and submit it via as a brand spanking new role!!
If Chainsaw man successfully cut off a Mafia vote. He gains a a chain effect. He gain additional vote cut next day phase. Stacks indefinitely, However, If the chainsaw cut a townie vote he lose all his stacks and can only limited to one cut
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