Discussion Road to Laugh Tale (Vol. 4 Released)

[electricmastro]

You seem to think that I dislike Yamato. I don't.

I hate that Oden LARPing though. As well as Oden himself.

All I am saying is that I prefer most of what I have seen in those sketches.

I mean, using the phrasing "better than what we got" could imply that what we got is worse, right? Or am I not making sense?

 

[Lord Rayleigh]

Yamato in previous designs >_>

Middle Yamato looks like Battosai.

 

[Just another fan of OP]

So Morgan having the Bird Bird fruit model Albatros is a new info right ? Which means he is also most likely awakened given the fact he is constantly in his zoan form

 

[Bandit99]

So Morgan having the Bird Bird fruit model Albatros is a new info right ? Which means he is also most likely awakened given the fact he is constantly in his zoan form

It might be new info to you but the info was available/released before this road to laugh tale volume.
This same volume also describes awakened zoans becoming duller in their personalities. This is not the case for Morgans, so he isn’t awakened.
Just because we the readers only seen him in his hybrid form so far, doesn’t mean he’s constantly in it.

 

[Franz]

So Morgan having the Bird Bird fruit model Albatros is a new info right ?

Vivre Card.

 

[sarutobi_sensei]

cursed swords share the idea of curse but are made by different swordsmiths...i am thinking this because i see no link between law's sword and the three kitetsu..i strongly hope the opposite is wrong....i used to think zoro will end up carrying the three kitetsus... cursed swords are best match for king of hell...well with this chapter i wish zoro gets custom swords no one ever carried before him, he goes through the whole process of naming them, turning them black, cutting stuff known for being unbreakable..

Realistically, Zoro carrying Oden's sword, Kuina's sword and the Sandai Kitetsu doesn't mean that they are not his own. He inherited those swords, and was told later on, if he can keep them as black blades all the time, that's what distinguishes them.

The fact being that Enma literally is the King of Hell and Zoro being "connected" to it is just another nod.

Zoro will, at some point, have those swords as tier 1 swords and black blades.

 

[kkck]

I think it's a reach that sandai will be in the top rank even as a black blade. Shisui was among the 21 swords and was a permanently black blade. Not sure if who blackens a blade makes a difference but I think a sword turning black increasing a single rank makes sense. In which case if zoro succeeds in blackening 3 blades he will have two swords comparable to the 12 great swords and one comparable to the 21 great swords. During wano the possibility of permanently blackening emma was mentioned but I feel that blackening wado is probably more significant to the story.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 14, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 14, 2022 ---

I also find it interesting that haki draining is not necessarily a characteristic of grade swords. Wado never displayed this and zoro has been using it since he was a child. Sandai displayed some manner of this but it doesn't seem significant that zoro's east blue ass was significantly troubled by it. I suppose merely using it contributed to his growth. Enma is ranked the same as wado and using it pretty much requires you to be one of the world's top powers..

 

[HereNThere]

I also find it interesting that haki draining is not necessarily a characteristic of grade swords. Wado never displayed this and zoro has been using it since he was a child. Sandai displayed some manner of this but it doesn't seem significant that zoro's east blue ass was significantly troubled by it. I suppose merely using it contributed to his growth. Enma is ranked the same as wado and using it pretty much requires you to be one of the world's top powers..

I'd say different "dispositions" probably influence the "curse" of the sword, if there is a curse at all. Wado isn't labeled as cursed, so it's probably chill so to speak. Sandai's curse was basically bad luck, but it seems like Zoro's show of resolve was enough to impress it.

 

[catagon87]

I think it's a reach that sandai will be in the top rank even as a black blade. Shisui was among the 21 swords and was a permanently black blade. Not sure if who blackens a blade makes a difference but I think a sword turning black increasing a single rank makes sense. In which case if zoro succeeds in blackening 3 blades he will have two swords comparable to the 12 great swords and one comparable to the 21 great swords. During wano the possibility of permanently blackening emma was mentioned but I feel that blackening wado is probably more significant to the story.

I think certain blades are just made better than others and will never get into the top tier (supreme grade) unless they started there. We've seen that Yoru (Mihawk), Ace (Roger) and Murakumogiri (Whitebeard) are supreme grade blades. With the latter, I suspect it was probably crafted in such a way that it could survive his quake attacks and even channel them. I can't imagine even in the OP-verse that it's possible to "strengthen" a blade that is low quality into being able to handle such a thing.

I think a strong swordsman can probably make it seem like a great-grade is a supreme-grade, but I don't think they could propel it to that level as a generality. EOS Zoro will probably use Wado as though it's a Supreme Grade, but I think it'll always be one tier below that. I'm honestly betting on Zoro eventually getting Shodai Kitetsu, as it is a supreme grade blade that is pretty mysterious.

 

[kkck]

I'd say different "dispositions" probably influence the "curse" of the sword, if there is a curse at all. Wado isn't labeled as cursed, so it's probably chill so to speak. Sandai's curse was basically bad luck, but it seems like Zoro's show of resolve was enough to impress it.

Nah, the "curse" is actually the effect emma has. The shimotsuki at zoro's village made this point, there are not cursed blades. Just weak swordsmen. Basically "cursed" swords drain unfit swordsmen of their haki and they are unable to perform in combat. The maker definitely influences the sword and it's capacity to drain haki though.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 14, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 14, 2022 ---

I think certain blades are just made better than others and will never get into the top tier (supreme grade) unless they started there. We've seen that Yoru (Mihawk), Ace (Roger) and Murakumogiri (Whitebeard) are supreme grade blades. With the latter, I suspect it was probably crafted in such a way that it could survive his quake attacks and even channel them. I can't imagine even in the OP-verse that it's possible to "strengthen" a blade that is low quality into being able to handle such a thing.

I think a strong swordsman can probably make it seem like a great-grade is a supreme-grade, but I don't think they could propel it to that level as a generality. EOS Zoro will probably use Wado as though it's a Supreme Grade, but I think it'll always be one tier below that. I'm honestly betting on Zoro eventually getting Shodai Kitetsu, as it is a supreme grade blade that is pretty mysterious.

Yeah, I agree. My guess is that in context "it depends". Haki is generally the core of combat in the series and the most determinant factor into a battle's outcome (which is not to minimize the importance of other things, haki does not exactly guarantee victory). Vergo was competitive in the new world with bamboo which is probably less durable than other weapons in general. Barring of course it being special bamboo. If bamboo can be effective then I would guess any sword with a minimum of quality an decent haki can work. Zoro in the managed emma levels of power output with all of his blades after all. I do wonder if different swords would handle haki volumes differently.

Given that not all grade swords have haki draining properties I would argue we simply shouldn't expect that from supreme grade swords. Sandai probably has more of that than wado. So the determinant factor here would be simply quality.

 

[HereNThere]

Nah, the "curse" is actually the effect emma has. The shimotsuki at zoro's village made this point, there are not cursed blades. Just weak swordsmen. Basically "cursed" swords drain unfit swordsmen of their haki and they are unable to perform in combat. The maker definitely influences the sword and it's capacity to drain haki though.

What I mean is "cursed" swords likely have different tests for wielders, which is why I mentioned Sandai's unique "curse" was basically bad luck, which Zoro challenged and won against immediately. Yes, Shimotsuki said swords aren't cursed, it's just their disposition/personality towards certain people that makes them seem cursed as the sword is basically acting out until a strong enough person impresses it or tames it. We can assume all the swords have their own personality, so Enma's personality likely makes haki draining unique to it.

While Law's Blade isn't a Famed Sword, it is also cursed but, from what we've seen, doesn't drain haki. So it probably had it's own thing that Law managed to conquer.

 

[catagon87]

While Law's Blade isn't a Famed Sword, it is also cursed but, from what we've seen, doesn't drain haki. So it probably had it's own thing that Law managed to conquer.

I really wonder what kind of baby is going to be produced after Law's sword penetrated Big Mom so hard with its big Puncture Wille.

 

[kkck]

What I mean is "cursed" swords likely have different tests for wielders, which is why I mentioned Sandai's unique "curse" was basically bad luck, which Zoro challenged and won against immediately. Yes, Shimotsuki said swords aren't cursed, it's just their disposition/personality towards certain people that makes them seem cursed as the sword is basically acting out until a strong enough person impresses it or tames it. We can assume all the swords have their own personality, so Enma's personality likely makes haki draining unique to it.

While Law's Blade isn't a Famed Sword, it is also cursed but, from what we've seen, doesn't drain haki. So it probably had it's own thing that Law managed to conquer.

My point is that this isn't what is going on. The "curse" refers specifically and uniquely to swords absorbing haki from the wielder. Each sword to different degree. There are no tests, just swords leaving behind husks of inadequate swordsmen with weak haki. Sandai's bad luck was just that, inadequate swordsmen being left dry.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

My point is that this isn't what is going on. The "curse" refers specifically and uniquely to swords absorbing haki from the wielder. Each sword to different degree. There are no tests, just swords leaving behind husks of inadequate swordsmen with weak haki. Sandai's bad luck was just that, inadequate swordsmen being left dry.

Within the context of the story this wouldn't make sense unless Oda has retconned what it means to be cursed. Zoro throwing Sandai into the air to see if the blade gets his arm or not has no relationship to haki drainage but it is a clear test of ones luck. Zoro even states it himself that it is his luck vs the swords curse. Haki drainage wouldn't explain this.

 

[kkck]

Within the context of the story this wouldn't make sense unless Oda has retconned what it means to be cursed. Zoro throwing Sandai into the air to see if the blade gets his arm or not has no relationship to haki drainage but it is a clear test of ones luck. Zoro even states it himself that it is his luck vs the swords curse. Haki drainage wouldn't explain this.

Yeah, that's kinda exactly what happened. It's literally the entire point of the shimotsuki kozaburo flashback. Though I would frame it more as recontextualizing than retcon. As in, actually understanding what "cursed" blades are is not a retcon. In world it makes sense that inadequate swordsmen would fear blades that suck them dry of their energy.

Relevant pages:

Spoiler

https://cdn1.mangasail.net/sites/default/files/manga/5/198480//adsense-ad20220515182021152.jpg

Spoiler

https://cdn1.mangasail.net/sites/default/files/manga/10/198480//20220515182021195.jpg

And another translation.

One Piece Chapter 1033 - One Piece Manga Online

w3.readone-piece.com

and this

https://cdn.readdetectiveconan.com/file/mangap/2/10955000/14.jpeg

There are no cursed swords. There never were any cursed swords. There are only weak swordsmen...

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Yeah, that's kinda exactly what happened. It's literally the entire point of the shimotsuki kozaburo flashback. Though I would frame it more as recontextualizing than retcon. As in, actually understanding what "cursed" blades are is not a retcon. In world it makes sense that inadequate swordsmen would fear blades that suck them dry of their energy.

Relevant pages:

Spoiler

https://cdn1.mangasail.net/sites/default/files/manga/5/198480//adsense-ad20220515182021152.jpg

Spoiler

https://cdn1.mangasail.net/sites/default/files/manga/10/198480//20220515182021195.jpg

And another translation.

One Piece Chapter 1033 - One Piece Manga Online

w3.readone-piece.com

and this

https://cdn.readdetectiveconan.com/file/mangap/2/10955000/14.jpeg

There are no cursed swords. There never were any cursed swords. There are only weak swordsmen...

The Shimotsuki quote is one of my favorites. Cursed blades are just ones that do their job well, which is to cut people down. I get where you're coming from and your argument about them taking haki makes sense from recent revelations.

However, I choose to believe Oda retconned what cursed blades are within the context of the story, especially since they were introduced as a concept before haki. It's either he retconned it or I have to believe Zoro was dumb enough to risk losing his arm over a misunderstanding of what cursed blade means. And as a Zoro fanboy I don't want to insult his intelligence to that degree.

 

[kkck]

The Shimotsuki quote is one of my favorites. Cursed blades are just ones that do their job well, which is to cut people down. I get where you're coming from and your argument about them taking haki makes sense from recent revelations.

However, I choose to believe Oda retconned what cursed blades are within the context of the story, especially since they were introduced as a concept before haki. It's either he retconned it or I have to believe Zoro was dumb enough to risk losing his arm over a misunderstanding of what cursed blade means. And as a Zoro fanboy I don't want to insult his intelligence to that degree.

I don't think zoro knew what a curse blade was or wasn't. He simply felt it out and his instinct told him he was good to go. And zoro isn't exactly wont to superstition. Zoro finding sandai wasn't an accident, he felt it. He felt the blade was powerful (aka cursed). And this in turn prepared him for the new world. I don't think oda had decided on the specifics of haki way back then but I do think he had at least settled on haki being a thing. And just pushed it back as the story grew longer. Basically there's a solid chance this was planned out for a while.

I would also argue sukiyaki's comments regarding sandai fit well enough with kozaburo's that we should pretty much regard this as a fact (barring additional context being missing).

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

There are no cursed swords. There never were any cursed swords. There are only weak swordsmen...

Cursed blades do exist, we have seen Enma has magic powers. It has a weird aura, it strengthens attacks, cuts harder than necessary?

There are definitely cursed blades, but it takes a strong swordsman to tame the sword.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 15, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 15, 2022 ---

The "curse" refers specifically and uniquely to swords absorbing haki from the wielder.

No, that is specific to Enma.
Haki is not what determines whether a blade is cursed or not.
Zoro has Sandai Kitetsu, yet it has no relation to Haki. There's probably more abilities it has that we are yet to see.

 

[kkck]

Cursed blades do exist, we have seen Enma has magic powers. It has a weird aura, it strengthens attacks, cuts harder than necessary?

There are definitely cursed blades, but it takes a strong swordsman to tame the sword.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 15, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 15, 2022 ---

No, that is specific to Enma.
Haki is not what determines whether a blade is cursed or not.
Zoro has Sandai Kitetsu, yet it has no relation to Haki. There's probably more abilities it has that we are yet to see.

Nah, what I am saying is that the "curse" is actual haki drainage. The curse is a misunderstanding by people unable to handle this. In context it makes sense this could be misunderstood as a curse. You use these seemingly strong blade which cuts way too much, then grow exhausted when it is done draining your haki and you die an unfortunate death in battle. Or in any situation where exhaustion could prove fatal. Or just sheer exhaustion. Imagine someone dropping emma in the least blue, what would happen to randoms that grab it... Basically, the chapters I mentioned before give emma, sandai and cursed blades in general context.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Nah, what I am saying is that the "curse" is actual haki drainage.

For Enma.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 15, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 15, 2022 ---

Basically, the chapters I mentioned before give emma, sandai and cursed blades in general context.

Enma and Sandai Kitetsu are different blades. Just because Enma acts 1 way doesn't mean Sandai acts the same way.

If all cursed blades acted the same, Zoro would be dead from wielding Sandai.

At no point has Zoro even compared Sandai and Enma as being similar. All cursed blades don't act the same way. Even Nidai Kitetsu didn't exhibit similar behaviour, so we know, cursed blades act differently.