Movies Star Wars - The Thread

[kkck]

So... One thing that keeps popping up in star wars that to me is a weird direction for disney to take things to is how the jedi are basically wrong about their approach to the force. With disney it looks like they want the force to not be about light vs dark but rather about balance. I feel like this is a significant departure from how lucas came to envision the force and also more importantly how longtime fans envision it. The concept of the force being in balanced is muddy as it is but generally the explanation is that the force in balance has the light side winning out. Meanwhile adding balance in the sense of equal amounts of both seems like you are trying to balance out literal abject evil with objective goodness.

 

[Jammin]

Yeah, I sort of see what your saying but to be honest Lucas f'd everything up so bad in the prequels with all the Jedi lore, to the point that I'm not sure how much that was really even intact before Disney got their hands on it. Especially with all the Jedi must not fall in love. No passion and all that. That's pretty much impossible to work with long term. The previously nonexistent lore he heaped into those movies is a bit of an albatross.

The idea of order versus chaos is where I would prefer it would be but you can't really do that in a universe where the oppressive empire is sort of a representation of order, of a sort.

I always thought the KOTOR games struck sort of the ideal balance. With the Sith all pursuing their own agendas and the Jedi being more united but also restrictive. Where the distinction was more about thier view of power and how it should be used. But no Star Wars movies have really found that same sweet spot.

 

[kkck]

Yeah, I sort of see what your saying but to be honest Lucas f'd everything up so bad in the prequels with all the Jedi lore, to the point that I'm not sure how much that was really even intact before Disney got their hands on it. Especially with all the Jedi must not fall in love. No passion and all that. That's pretty much impossible to work with long term. The previously nonexistent lore he heaped into those movies is a bit of an albatross.

The idea of order versus chaos is where I would prefer it would be but you can't really do that in a universe where the oppressive empire is sort of a representation of order, of a sort.

I always thought the KOTOR games struck sort of the ideal balance. With the Sith all pursuing their own agendas and the Jedi being more united but also restrictive. Where the distinction was more about thier view of power and how it should be used. But no Star Wars movies have really found that same sweet spot.

I am not so sure about the bit with jedi not falling in love. Lucas did aim to frame the jedi as a fundamentally flawed organization, specially during the clone wars tv show. Not so much in their approach to the force per say but rather with their practices as an organization and their overall connection to other people. My impression in that regard would be that lucas specifically aimed to frame that detachment from love as a basic flaw in the jedi. For all its faults, in the prequels we specifically see yoda being massively unhelpful to anakin when it comes to his visions and in the original trilogy we see luke saving vader even when both obi wan and yoda believing it couldn't be done. The message is pretty clear, yoda is wrong and love wins the day.

I am pretty sure this framing about balance in the force in a ying yang type deal as we have seen recently can be directly traced to disney at least. Disney even seems to be getting too close for comfort into making dark side users into force ghosts. Which is something I am pretty lucas lucas envisioned as an absolute impossibility for dark side users.

 

[Jammin]

The Sith force ghost thing was in KOTOR I believe on the Sith Planet part. Which was back when it was under his creative control. There were a bunch of missions in the Bioware MMO too. Which I believe also predates the Disney acquisition. None of which is now canon i think but it was there.

There is no emotion, there is peace. There is no ignorance, there is knowledge. There is no passion, there is serenity. There is no chaos, there is harmony. There is no death, there is the Force.

The emotion and passion parts are interesting idea's that sort of ruin the jedi. At least the way Lucas implemented them. With Rey it seems like Diseny said "F all that" though.

 

[kkck]

The Sith force ghost thing was in KOTOR I believe on the Sith Planet part. Which was back when it was under his creative control. There were a bunch of missions in the Bioware MMO too. Which I believe also predates the Disney acquisition. None of which is now canon i think but it was there.

There is no emotion, there is peace. There is no ignorance, there is knowledge. There is no passion, there is serenity. There is no chaos, there is harmony. There is no death, there is the Force.

The emotion and passion parts are interesting idea's that sort of ruin the jedi. At least the way Lucas implemented them. With Rey it seems like Diseny said "F all that" though.

Never played KOTOR but my understanding of the sith situation in the past was that they weren't actual force ghosts. They were transfering between stuff or possessing people or things.. and without mediums they would basically vanish into the force. Disney in turn seems to be heading into actual sith force ghosts...

I would maintain that lucas himself was the one who said F that to those things. With the emphasis being on love and how it won luke the day. While back in the prequel it basically ruined anakin (though it was handled in a nonsensical manner).

 

[Sanity Check]

The original star wars trilogy is influenced by taoism and eastern mysticism. They have a legend an enlightened person can transmute the energy in living cells, at the moment of death. Harnessing the energy of cells in the material world to create a spiritual body in the immaterial world. Leaving only hair and fingernails behind. Its a near identical parallel to jedis bodies disappearing when they die and them having a spiritual body which allows their consciousness to go on existing post death.

There appears to have been considerable pressure placed on George Lucas to eliminate the basic premise of star wars.

Tearing down the founding principles, pillars and statues star wars was built upon. To make way for politically correct revisionism. In the way that some political idealogues today destroy monuments and landmarks to make history easier to falsify and corrupt.

 

[Jammin]

Never played KOTOR but my understanding of the sith situation in the past was that they weren't actual force ghosts. They were transfering between stuff or possessing people or things.. and without mediums they would basically vanish into the force. Disney in turn seems to be heading into actual sith force ghosts...

I would maintain that lucas himself was the one who said F that to those things. With the emphasis being on love and how it won luke the day. While back in the prequel it basically ruined anakin (though it was handled in a nonsensical manner).

Go play KOTOR. It's great. Best Star Wars story by far. Holds up pretty well too.

The original star wars trilogy is influenced by taoism and eastern mysticism. They have a legend an enlightened person can transmute the energy in living cells, at the moment of death. Harnessing the energy of cells in the material world to create a spiritual body in the immaterial world. Leaving only hair and fingernails behind. Its a near identical parallel to jedis bodies disappearing when they die and them having a spiritual body which allows their consciousness to go on existing post death.

There appears to have been considerable pressure placed on George Lucas to eliminate the basic premise of star wars.

Tearing down the founding principles, pillars and statues star wars was built upon. To make way for politically correct revisionism. In the way that some political idealogues today destroy monuments and landmarks to make history easier to falsify and corrupt.

What? How do you figure?

Pressure on Lucas? From whom?

 

[kkck]

The original star wars trilogy is influenced by taoism and eastern mysticism. They have a legend an enlightened person can transmute the energy in living cells, at the moment of death. Harnessing the energy of cells in the material world to create a spiritual body in the immaterial world. Leaving only hair and fingernails behind. Its a near identical parallel to jedis bodies disappearing when they die and them having a spiritual body which allows their consciousness to go on existing post death.

There appears to have been considerable pressure placed on George Lucas to eliminate the basic premise of star wars.

Tearing down the founding principles, pillars and statues star wars was built upon. To make way for politically correct revisionism. In the way that some political idealogues today destroy monuments and landmarks to make history easier to falsify and corrupt.

Erh, I think you have a basic misconception of star wars... and george lucas. George lucas is fairly left within the US political spectrum. To the point where the first trilogy was inspired by the vietnam war... With the rebels being veitnam and the empire being the US (due to his anti war sentiments back in the day). The prequel trilogy in turn was inspired by the US civil war. With the republic clearly being the north and the evil sith controlled separatists being the south. Add to that in some EU stuff dooku being essentially a human supremacist (though that bit might not be related to george lucas himself)...

On a side note, there is no greater politically correct revisionism within the US than what has been done with the confederacy and it's "heroes"....

 

[Sanity Check]

What? How do you figure?

Pressure on Lucas? From whom?

Some say there is pressure on hollywood to include political innuendos relating to LGBT, SJW, leftist ideology.

Lucas is feeling that pressure.

Erh, I think you have a basic misconception of star wars... and george lucas. George lucas is fairly left within the US political spectrum. To the point where the first trilogy was inspired by the vietnam war... With the rebels being veitnam and the empire being the US (due to his anti war sentiments back in the day). The prequel trilogy in turn was inspired by the US civil war. With the republic clearly being the north and the evil sith controlled separatists being the south. Add to that in some EU stuff dooku being essentially a human supremacist (though that bit might not be related to george lucas himself)...

On a side note, there is no greater politically correct revisionism within the US than what has been done with the confederacy and it's "heroes"....

The rebel alliance reminds you of communist vietcong in the vietnam war? How did you come to that interesting conclusion?

I would contend the values and ideology of the original star wars trilogy is decidedly right wing in origin. Its defined by an underdog battling against big government and totalitarianism.

The political affiliation shifted left wing beginning with the prequels. Culminating in the latest trilogy with Poe and Finn's gay off screen romance:

Star Wars WILL have gays says director: John Boyega CONFIRMS romance

STAR WARS will have gay characters in the new films, says director JJ Abrams, fuelling the rumours of a gay romance between John Boyega's Finn and Oscar Isaac's Poe in Star Wars Episode VIII.

www.express.co.uk

Confederate "heroes" what do you mean?

 

[Jammin]

Some say there is pressure on hollywood to include political innuendos relating to LGBT, SJW, leftist ideology.

Lucas is feeling that pressure.



The rebel alliance reminds you of communist vietcong in the vietnam war? How did you come to that interesting conclusion?

I would contend the values and ideology of the original star wars trilogy is decidedly right wing in origin. Its defined by an underdog battling against big government and totalitarianism.

The political affiliation shifted left wing beginning with the prequels. Culminating in the latest trilogy with Poe and Finn's gay off screen romance:

Star Wars WILL have gays says director: John Boyega CONFIRMS romance

STAR WARS will have gay characters in the new films, says director JJ Abrams, fuelling the rumours of a gay romance between John Boyega's Finn and Oscar Isaac's Poe in Star Wars Episode VIII.

www.express.co.uk

Confederate "heroes" what do you mean?

I think you assigning a lot of political weight to where there is very little.

The only pressure Lucas was under was from his own fans. He owned the whole franchise. And was famously insistent on being personally involved in most decisions. Writing and directing. The only political agendas in play would be his own.

There wasn't much of any Hollywood involvement until the new trilogy which he had no involvement in. So the one really has nothing to do with the other. Prequels and the new trilogy are entirely separate production-wise.

 

[kkck]

The rebel alliance reminds you of communist vietcong in the vietnam war? How did you come to that interesting conclusion?

I would contend the values and ideology of the original star wars trilogy is decidedly right wing in origin. Its defined by an underdog battling against big government and totalitarianism.

The political affiliation shifted left wing beginning with the prequels. Culminating in the latest trilogy with Poe and Finn's gay off screen romance:

Star Wars WILL have gays says director: John Boyega CONFIRMS romance

STAR WARS will have gay characters in the new films, says director JJ Abrams, fuelling the rumours of a gay romance between John Boyega's Finn and Oscar Isaac's Poe in Star Wars Episode VIII.

www.express.co.uk

Confederate "heroes" what do you mean?

Erh, history. It's not a crackpot theory of mine... Lucas was anti war back in the day and star wars reflects that. You have the rebels, a disorganized and technologically inferior military force sticking it up to the superior and militarily advanced military force. Lucas is not a communist of course but the guy is and has always been on the progressive end of US politics. Star wars is not and has never been right wing in origin, that's just revisionist mumbo jumbo...


It means confederates are traitors to the US who fought a war exclusively for slavery and should be regarded as such.

 

[Sanity Check]

I think you assigning a lot of political weight to where there is very little.

The only pressure Lucas was under was from his own fans. He owned the whole franchise. And was famously insistent on being personally involved in most decisions. Writing and directing. The only political agendas in play would be his own.

There wasn't much of any Hollywood involvement until the new trilogy which he had no involvement in. So the one really has nothing to do with the other. Prequels and the new trilogy are entirely separate production-wise.

If you know who JK Rowling is, have you noticed she used to be on the political right wing. Until pressure was placed on her to 180 her stance and push left wing ideology instead.

Something similar could have happened to George Lucas and a lot of people.

Erh, history. It's not a crackpot theory of mine... Lucas was anti war back in the day and star wars reflects that. You have the rebels, a disorganized and technologically inferior military force sticking it up to the superior and militarily advanced military force. Lucas is not a communist of course but the guy is and has always been on the progressive end of US politics. Star wars is not and has never been right wing in origin, that's just revisionist mumbo jumbo...


It means confederates are traitors to the US who fought a war exclusively for slavery and should be regarded as such.

The media was "anti war" when war was being fought against the spread of global communism. Later the media shifted to a "pro war" stance when war was fought to further agendas of global communism. I don't think a leftist could have made a movie trilogy like star wars which embodies so many right values.

If I remember right the US civil war was fought over taxes. Slavery wasn't as big of an issue. The transatlantic slave trade was a global enterprise at the time and was more or less normalized. As far as I know, anyways.

 

[kkck]

The media was "anti war" when war was being fought against the spread of global communism. Later the media shifted to a "pro war" stance when war was fought to further agendas of global communism. I don't think a leftist could have made a movie trilogy like star wars which embodies so many right values.

If I remember right the US civil war was fought over taxes. Slavery wasn't as big of an issue. The transatlantic slave trade was a global enterprise at the time and was more or less normalized. As far as I know, anyways.

This isn't about media conspiracy theories... this is about lucas and how he made star wars. You don't have to believe me, just google george lucas and the original trilogy...

As for that second bit, as I said, revisionist PC mumbo jumbo. The civil war was over slavery and the US in general was quite late compared to plenty other places in abolishing it.

 

[M3J]

If you know who JK Rowling is, have you noticed she used to be on the political right wing. Until pressure was placed on her to 180 her stance and push left wing ideology instead.

Something similar could have happened to George Lucas and a lot of people.

I know better than to take you seriously (even if others don't), but I highly doubt JK Rowling went 180 on her stance. If she's still staunchly transphobic despite backlash, then she'd probably still lean right. George Lucas would not have felt pressured to swing to the left.

Had he been born 20 years earlier and made a movie similar to Star Wars, though, he'd likely get his life destroyed by right wingers as anyone who was leaning left or liberal were under fire for suspected communism. Let's not pretend people are targeted for being right wingers (especially when it was harder to be left of center decades ago).

Also, I don't see what's wrong with Star Wars (or any other movie) being more inclusive. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's forced, especially since people will still watch movies regardless. The real problem is the bigotry, like anti-LGBT+ and racism, rather than inclusivity.


Anyway, the prequel and the sequel weren't done too well. I loved Rey's character though, while I hated how Luke was handled. And how Leia died, which sounds absolute bullshit. And then the way Rey and Ben could give each other stuff and whatnot... wtf? Broke the rules of the Force.

 

[kkck]

The heck? Rowling has never been on the right wing of UK politics... And even if she was, UK politics are nothing like US politics (unless you take a very shallow and very dishonest look at UK politics). Rowlin has always been on the UK leftwing and practically describes herself as a socialist. It's only recently that she has been somewhat at odds with the left because of her "transphobic" comments (though IMHO what she says is not actually transphobic)

 

[Sanity Check]

JK Rowling has always been a christian. Christians are the political right wing. Socialists/communists are atheists on the left. Its been that way for thousands of years.

Right wing ancient Rome was a republic with a legit senate, not unlike right wing america at the height of its power. When Rome's ideology shifted to the left wing, they became a totalitarian regime worshipping its emperor as a god. The same as left wing north korea worshipping Kim Jong as a deity figure.

Rome's shift to left wing politics also marked its decline and eventual demise as a super power. The same might be said of the united states.

...

edit

JK Rowling wrote Dumbledore and Grindelwald as gay characters. How "transphobic" can she be? Oh wait. I forgot. It doesn't have to make sense, it just has to follow the fake news narratives laid down by the left wing media. Which says right wing christians are "oppressive".

 

[M3J]

JK Rowling has always been a christian. Christians are the political right wing. Socialists/communists are atheists on the left. Its been that way for thousands of years.

Right wing ancient Rome was a republic with a legit senate, not unlike right wing america at the height of its power. When Rome's ideology shifted to the left wing, they became a totalitarian regime worshipping its emperor as a god. The same as left wing north korea worshipping Kim Jong as a deity figure.

Rome's shift to left wing politics also marked its decline and eventual demise as a super power. The same might be said of the united states.

...

edit

JK Rowling wrote Dumbledore and Grindelwald as gay characters. How "transphobic" can she be? Oh wait. I forgot. It doesn't have to make sense, it just has to follow the fake news narratives laid down by the left wing media. Which says right wing christians are "oppressive".

Provide sources that JK Rowling is a right winger in the Harry Potter thread. Otherwise I'm just gonna take it as another fake news from you. Otherwise your post isn't worth correcting, given how many things are wrong.


Anyway, if they come up with the sequel to the sequel, will they somehow try to involve the Skywalkers again? I mean, there are no more living Skywalker as far as we know, and Rey isn't a real Skywalker, so yeah. Though personally, I'd love to see them cancel the sequel and start over again, and we at least get a good fight from Luke.

 

[Sanity Check]

Anyway, if they come up with the sequel to the sequel, will they somehow try to involve the Skywalkers again? I mean, there are no more living Skywalker as far as we know, and Rey isn't a real Skywalker, so yeah. Though personally, I'd love to see them cancel the sequel and start over again, and we at least get a good fight from Luke.

Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher. All three exert a lot of gravitas and charisma on screen, even as boomers. They tend to outshine the younger actors and actresses who seem somewhat boring and bland in comparison. Mark Hamill did a cameo appearance on The Flash live action series as The Trickster years back. He was great. It could make sense to focus on old Luke, its where the talent pool seems to lie.

I still think the young Han Solo standalone is the best new thing they've released so far.

What would be cool is if they approached real and established authors of the scifi/space opera genre to produce a script. As opposed to what they did with the new trilogy where they had a team of very enthusiastic young SJW fanfiction authors try to do it.

 

[M3J]

They do, but the newer actors did a great job, whether John, Oscar, or Daisy. Ewan McGregor was also great as Obi-Wan, while Hayden was too wooden (on Lucas's orders from what I heard). I don't mind much on whom they focus, but I just wish Luke had a great fight.

Agreed, shockingly enough. Plus, the actor did young Han so well. I wish the movie was more successful.

Didn't Disney say the Expanded Universe books weren't canon anymore?

 

[Sanity Check]

Didn't Disney say the Expanded Universe books weren't canon anymore?

AFAIK Lucas maintained nearly all of the EU's integrity by following Timothy Zahn's description of Coruscant as the capital.

Disney came along and wiped out everything produced before it.