Movies Star Wars - The Thread

[M3J]

That really sucks because we could have had good movies and shows from the EU, like the Yuuzhan Vong war and Bakura. `

 

[Jammin]

Check it out @xi0. We have actual confirmation that they planned nothing.

https://nypost.com/2020/09/09/star-wars-fans-freak-over-daisy-ridleys-rey-kenobi-reveal/

Or at least not Rey's parentage and everything relating to that. Apparently Daisy Riddly was supposed to be Rey Kenobi in the first movie. Then it was Rey Nobody. Then Rey Palpatine. That part was made up literally with the last movie. It's sort of amazing to consider much incompetence when into managing that trilogy.

I never thought Disney would ever allow this much to get out though. I mean, I assumed everybody would be NDA'd for like 100 years by contract. But if she's just throwing stuff out like this out there in Jimmy Kimmel interviews then they must not be.

 

[kkck]

Uff, yeah, that's pretty bad. At least they planned on her having an ancestry though. That's.... technically something right?

Still, this was clearly the most likely scenario... Though its kinda funny that they just ping ponged rey's heritage like that. it also explains all the obi wan theories... since the hints were kinda there. More than disney though I would still blame 99% of this on ryan johnson. The original trilogy was not written before they began filming, lucas didn't even know there would be a second and third film... BUT he had the benefit of having varying degrees of control on the films and we ultimately saw his visions. Because it was his story he managed to build on previous episodes and take it forward in spite of constantly changing his mind and flip floping. in turn first we had JJ's vision, then we saw ryan johnson maliciously wiping his ass with JJ's vision and then we get JJ's THE RISE OF THE REWIPENING WITH A VENGEANCE. It was a mistake to change to johnson and allow him to shit on JJ (and on luke).

 

[xi0]

Check it out @xi0. We have actual confirmation that they planned nothing.

https://nypost.com/2020/09/09/star-wars-fans-freak-over-daisy-ridleys-rey-kenobi-reveal/

Or at least not Rey's parentage and everything relating to that. Apparently Daisy Riddly was supposed to be Rey Kenobi in the first movie. Then it was Rey Nobody. Then Rey Palpatine. That part was made up literally with the last movie. It's sort of amazing to consider much incompetence when into managing that trilogy.

I never thought Disney would ever allow this much to get out though. I mean, I assumed everybody would be NDA'd for like 100 years by contract. But if she's just throwing stuff out like this out there in Jimmy Kimmel interviews then they must not be.

It's Disney, so they had different versions of this ready to test with audiences most likely. So yeah, they did have many "plans". But when you have that many it's as good as not having one, I guess. Even if that one plan is kind of obvious and of no real consequence (Rey Kenobi).

Hollywood has this obsession with conflict over coherence. So of course they were ready to make her related to Palpatine... it's close enough to another original trilogy callback with Vader even. Abrams was obsessed with that play in TFA.

Anyways, fuck Disney and fuck SW... going back to my Dune trailer

 

[Sanity Check]

Rey Kenobi could be an interesting storyline. Prequel Obiwan seemed like the perfect jedi poster boy. What if he had a dark side to him where he fathered and abandoned a child. The hypocrisy of Obiwan lecturing Anakin only to fall victim to the same sinful lusts could spice things up.

They screwed up the plot of Rey being Palpatine's grand daughter by not laying the ground work. Palpatine orders the deaths of his own children/grandchildren to punish them for hiding Rey from him. But its not done well due to the constant changes. George Lucas was lucky to have Vader being Luke's father plot twist. They tried to emulate it with Rey being Palpy's granddaughter but no dice.

 

[kkck]

Welp, downloaded KOTOR on steam... as per my controller only policy, immediately uninstalled.

 

[xi0]

Welp, downloaded KOTOR on steam... as per my controller only policy, immediately uninstalled.

Wait, you only play games on PC if it has controller support?

 

[kkck]

Wait, you only play games on PC if it has controller support?

Pretty much. It's only ever been a problem with 2 games tbh, first the witcher 1 and now KOTOR. I also don't play first person shooters usually...

 

[Jammin]

I'm just thoroughly shocked that anyone would play PC games like that. I don't think I ever used a controller on PC outside of roms, RPG maker games, and the Bully PC release (Which was nearly unplayable on mouse and keyboard.) When I'm forced to basically.

 

[xi0]

Pretty much. It's only ever been a problem with 2 games tbh, first the witcher 1 and now KOTOR. I also don't play first person shooters usually...

I thought you played LoL in the past or other PC games? I get there are preferences depending on the type of game though. But even having grown up as mainly a console gamer, using a controller for most games feels really awkward for me now.

For instance, Souls-likes are probably best with a controller. I don't imagine Fallen Order would be fun to play with KB+M

 

[kkck]

I've tried playing games with a mouse and whatnot but... I just hate it. Grew up with consoles so controls end up feeling far more natural I guess. I also usually hook up my computer to a projector, which would be a bitch (and kinda pointless) to play with a keyboard and mouse.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 14, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 14, 2020 ---

I thought you played LoL in the past or other PC games? I get there are preferences depending on the type of game though. But even having grown up as mainly a console gamer, using a controller for most games feels really awkward for me now.

For instance, Souls-likes are probably best with a controller. I don't imagine Fallen Order would be fun to play with KB+M

Ah, yeah, strategy games I did play with keyboard and mouse (there is no other way and if there was they would suck...). Though they aren't the type of games I play more commonly, nowadays at least. But if its an adventure-rpg type game then I won't really go for the keyboard + mouse option.

 

[Sanity Check]

Most hilarious and best star wars fan edit ever.

 

[xnut]

Disney ruined Star Wars don't @me

 

[kkck]

So, question about rise of skywalker... what was sidious' plan? Was it to pass on the empire to rey via having her kill him in anger or did he set up the force dyad did from the get go?

 

[Jammin]

So, question about rise of skywalker... what was sidious' plan? Was it to pass on the empire to rey via having her kill him in anger or did he set up the force dyad did from the get go?

That's a trick question. There was no plan.

I think the implication was that he was the personification of the Sith rather than a singular entity.

 

[kkck]

That's a trick question. There was no plan.

I think the implication was that he was the personification of the Sith rather than a singular entity.

I meant within the context of the movie, not disney :P

That's also something I am trying to figure out. Because sidious being "all" the sith is kinda nonsense at least with how I understand the lore. But something I read in the wiki kinda suggests that an apprentice who kills his masters has his masters spirit passed on to him...

I am also trying to make sense of whether sidius actually intended for vader to surpass him. My guess is yes (the context of that being set by sith culture) but some stuff in star wars at times hint sidious fought against that enough to be against the spirit of the sith order.

 

[Jammin]

I mean, I think for it to make sense you sort of have to look at it in the context of how it was written.

Namely..

"Oh shit, how do we end this?"
"We need to make it be epic!"
"Bring back Palaptine and have Rey and Ben kill him... again."
"..... so clone stuff? Is that going to be enough?"
"Nah probably not. We need super saiyan palpatine!"
"Ok... so he's like Sith Sauron from LotR"
"Perfect, lets do it!"

Because out of that context I think the whole thing makes about as much sense as him conjouring 10,000 planet killing destroyers and presumably crew for said destroyers from... the force. Duh duh daaaaaaa!

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 21, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 21, 2020 ---

Is the Rey part of the plan necessary? Absolutely not. But when you cram a trilogy end together without any prior preparation that's what happens.

 

[kkck]

I mean, I think for it to make sense you sort of have to look at it in the context of how it was written.

Namely..

"Oh shit, how do we end this?"
"We need to make it be epic!"
"Bring back Palaptine and have Rey and Ben kill him... again."
"..... so clone stuff? Is that going to be enough?"
"Nah probably not. We need super saiyan palpatine!"
"Ok... so he's like Sith Sauron from LotR"
"Perfect, lets do it!"

Because out of that context I think the whole thing makes about as much sense as him conjouring 10,000 planet killing destroyers and presumably crew for said destroyers from... the force. Duh duh daaaaaaa!

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 21, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 21, 2020 ---

Is the Rey part of the plan necessary? Absolutely not. But when you cram a trilogy end together without any prior preparation that's what happens.

I mean, sure, but that's not really what I am asking. Add to that, the planet destroyers coming out of nowhere is very much in line with how star wars works. In ROTJ we are supposed to believe palpi hid his entire fleet on the other side of a moon and the rebellion did not notice.

I would also maintain that the issue is not the lack of planning. Lucas did not plan the original trilogy. When the empire strikes back begun filming he didn't know vader was luke's dad. The empire strikes back, the BEST star wars film altogether, is the one where lucas had the least influence on. The prequel trilogy which was all lucas and had all the planning and whatnot, did not get any love until 15 years after its release and that with the help of the clone wars tv show which was pretty damn good. The problem with the sequel trilogy is specifically ryan johnson who looney tuned snoke out of the plot and then disney who was hellbent on bringing back palpatine spite of that contradicting stuff said by lucas...

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 9, 2020 ---

So, recently there has been more lore stuff being revealed about force dyads and.... To me it doesn't make sense how it plays out in regards to the sith. The sith as a force organization and in spite of their limited numbers have their own traditions and even culture. The relationship between master and apprentice is in principle adversarial, they are in practice rivals at each other's throats. In legends or in the new lore sith are not given things, they take it by force.

So, now you have the dyad being a huge part of sith culture with generations of masters and apprentices being out to try and form the bond. Now, the bond IS powerful and can be immensely useful but... What is the point of forming a dyad for two people who are out to kill the other as soon as they outlive their usefulness? Why would a sith look to increase the other's usefulness? I won't deny the tactical advantages a dyad provides the users but forming such an union would be against the interests of two people out to kill each other. I can even buy the rule of two being inspired by the dyad but not it being something appealing to sith.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 9, 2020 ---

To add to that, the dyad is specifically detrimental to a master. The sequel trilogy shows us rey absorbing ren's knowledge of the force (or at least that's explained in additional materials).... But for a sith master that presumably means passing on his knowledge thus getting closer to outliving his usefulness...

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 9, 2020 ---

On another note, is sidious poisoning plagueis in keeping with sith doctrine? The point is for an apprentice to defeat his master when he exceeds him but poisoning someone doesn't exactly make that case.

 

[Sanity Check]

I mean, sure, but that's not really what I am asking. Add to that, the planet destroyers coming out of nowhere is very much in line with how star wars works. In ROTJ we are supposed to believe palpi hid his entire fleet on the other side of a moon and the rebellion did not notice.

Rebels would need a ship, probe or satellite on the other side of the moon to detect the fleet concealed there. Not an option if the rebel sneak attack on the 2nd death star was to remain secret.

So, recently there has been more lore stuff being revealed about force dyads and.... To me it doesn't make sense how it plays out in regards to the sith. The sith as a force organization and in spite of their limited numbers have their own traditions and even culture. The relationship between master and apprentice is in principle adversarial, they are in practice rivals at each other's throats. In legends or in the new lore sith are not given things, they take it by force.

I liked the way Drew Karphyshyn defined the order of two and the system sith utilized preceding it in his Darth Bane trilogy.

It was a depressing read and the way sith do things is satanic. But I thought he balanced things out well and provided a good framework for it.

Sith utilizing a dyad based system seems unfeasible if that spiritual relationship is rare only arises once every x number of generations as Darth Sidious says in Rise of Skywalker. I guess the implication is a dyad would have no choice but to work together, or kill each other. The close spiritual connection would make it inevitable that they work together to some degree.

So, now you have the dyad being a huge part of sith culture with generations of masters and apprentices being out to try and form the bond. Now, the bond IS powerful and can be immensely useful but... What is the point of forming a dyad for two people who are out to kill the other as soon as they outlive their usefulness? Why would a sith look to increase the other's usefulness? I won't deny the tactical advantages a dyad provides the users but forming such an union would be against the interests of two people out to kill each other. I can even buy the rule of two being inspired by the dyad but not it being something appealing to sith.

What puts me off is it being caste system derived in terms of bloodlines.

Star Wars A New Hope was great, Luke Skywalker was a nobody dust farmer who rose in a rags to riches paradigm. Ditto with Harry Potter's early days being a nobody raised by the Dursley family who loathed him. The moral of the story was anyone could be great no matter who they are, or where they come from.

Later we learn Harry Potter is descended from the noble Peverell bloodline. Luke Skywalker is descended from the noble Skywalker bloodline. This says you can only aspire to greatness if you're descended from a noble house and have the blood of kings and heros running through your veins. Else, you're screwed. That's fkd up man. Why must it be limited to genetics.

On another note, is sidious poisoning plagueis in keeping with sith doctrine? The point is for an apprentice to defeat his master when he exceeds him but poisoning someone doesn't exactly make that case.

Darth Sidious: "When in doubt".
Darth Sidious: "Sith AIDs is the answer."



I never read the story of Sidious and his master. Can't comment.

 

[kkck]

Rebels would need a ship, probe or satellite on the other side of the moon to detect the fleet concealed there. Not an option if the rebel sneak attack on the 2nd death star was to remain secret.

I liked the way Drew Karphyshyn defined the order of two and the system sith utilized preceding it in his Darth Bane trilogy.

It was a depressing read and the way sith do things is satanic. But I thought he balanced things out well and provided a good framework for it.

Sith utilizing a dyad based system seems unfeasible if that spiritual relationship is rare only arises once every x number of generations as Darth Sidious says in Rise of Skywalker. I guess the implication is a dyad would have no choice but to work together, or kill each other. The close spiritual connection would make it inevitable that they work together to some degree.

What puts me off is it being caste system derived in terms of bloodlines.

Star Wars A New Hope was great, Luke Skywalker was a nobody dust farmer who rose in a rags to riches paradigm. Ditto with Harry Potter's early days being a nobody raised by the Dursley family who loathed him. The moral of the story was anyone could be great no matter who they are, or where they come from.

Later we learn Harry Potter is descended from the noble Peverell bloodline. Luke Skywalker is descended from the noble Skywalker bloodline. This says you can only aspire to greatness if you're descended from a noble house and have the blood of kings and heros running through your veins. Else, you're screwed. That's fkd up man. Why must it be limited to genetics.

Darth Sidious: "When in doubt".
Darth Sidious: "Sith AIDs is the answer."



I never read the story of Sidious and his master. Can't comment.

I mean, or a radar. It really depends on how convenient a development is or isn't.

There definitely is a practical aspect to the dyad (welp, it isn't) but my point is more about how sith culture being centered around it doesn't make much sense. The connection is just impractical for two people out to get each other when they outlive their usefulness.

Even from the first harry potter book you had him being some kid who lived in a closet who then turned to not only be a super special awesome wizard but also inherited a literal vault full of gold. Not to say he had a good childhood but even without the peverel reveal it's fairly clear that harry came from a family with "vault full of gold" level of wealth.

I will also make the case that luke did not have the blood of heroes running in his veins. I get what you are going for but luke's ancestry is... On his father's side he has darth fucking vader. Who had a short career as a clone war hero and then a 20 year gig of being a terrifying fucking sith lord. Darth vader comes from his slave mother. And... his father literally does not exist. I suppose you can make a case for amidala though that isn't the skywalker line. The skywalker line is basically tatoine hillbillies up to anakins slave mother, then a sith lord, then luke... Which is not to say anakin and his descendants aren't exceptionally potent in the force. But framing them as heroes.... eh.