Chapter Tower of God Chapter 616 Spoilers & Discussion

[Shiinhye1]

sorry for the delay, I hope you enjoy the chapter.

https://comick.io/comic/02-tower-of-god/8xehGPrd-chapter-616-en

 

[Yelnats]

Traum was already a pshico with over-control issue, tearing apart a flower guilty of blossoming without his consent

Is someone a psycho if they tear a flower growing in a football field? Traum just want to prevent his grass field from being overrun by wild flowers.

 

[King Dryst]

Dumas ain’t shit without his armor, just another coward hiding in a shell

He was shit enough to beat Baam's worthless ass, if nothing else.

 

[Big-Bird]

Unless the strength is dependent on something that can be nullified easily by the matchup.

Even though White is weaker, he can utilize his spell to deactivate the armor.

Dumas' real body will still be there, he'll still be able to go out and fight or absorb White and clobber him inside his world.
Dumas' strength is that he is an immortal monster, take away the immortal part and Dusmas remains a monster
White ain't built for this, Dumas real body smash him too

 

[Demonspeed]

When people start complaining about equipment and stuff, that's where you know they have lost the plot. They are part of their fighting styles. How strong would Baam be without the Thorn fragments? How strong would White be if he wasn't a fusion of 5 siblings? That's endless.

 

[CountDookoe]

Everybody making cases for their fav character why can't ya'll just be unbiased and take the story for what it is? you dont have evidence or points just head cannon, kinda pathetic.

 

[Kiibou]

Dumas could solo the Nest fighters altogether. That’s how big the difference is to me.

 

[Big-Bird]

Dumas could solo the Nest fighters altogether. That’s how big the difference is to me.

HIM

 

[Yelnats]

Dumas' real body will still be there, he'll still be able to go out and fight or absorb White and clobber him inside his world.
Dumas' strength is that he is an immortal monster, take away the immortal part and Dusmas remains a monster
White ain't built for this, Dumas real body smash him too

That part is not confirmed though as we never see Baam use his full power to fight Dumas's real body. Even Baam admit he is still unable to rereach the power level he had when fighting White (even at that level, he still need help from AA + firefish and Rak + Ancient Spear to defeat White).

One could argue that White and Kallavan are both monsters too, they can easily kill Branch Head or Division Commander while toying around. One could also argue Dumas's real body is not build to withstand White's Arie sword (which cannot be dodged by towerborn).

 

[O_n_Sly]

When people start complaining about equipment and stuff, that's where you know they have lost the plot. They are part of their fighting styles. How strong would Baam be without the Thorn fragments? How strong would White be if he wasn't a fusion of 5 siblings? That's endless.

Soo the nobody on the HF controlling the Big Breeder was strong right?!?! As was as Rachel?!?!

 

[Yelnats]

complaining about equipment and stuff

Is there any complaint about equipment or stuff?

I think it's fair to include equipment (and how to nullify it) in hypothetical matchup. The presence of equipment (and its counter) make the fights not only about power so it is more interesting (who would have thought Enkidu can counter Tiara's pen by blocking the tip with slime? That is a good one from SIU).

 

[Demonspeed]

Is there any complaint about equipment or stuff?

I think it's fair to include equipment (and how to nullify it) in hypothetical matchup. The presence of equipment (and its counter) make the fights not only about power so it is more interesting (who would have thought Enkidu can counter Tiara's pen by blocking the tip with slime? That is a good one from SIU).

I am talking about people saying "X won only because he had Y" and so on. Like when people were whining because Tiara defeated Yuri(who uses a lot of weapons herself).

 

[Big-Bird]

That part is not confirmed though as we never see Baam use his full power to fight Dumas's real body. Even Baam admit he is still unable to rereach the power level he had when fighting White (even at that level, he still need help from AA + firefish and Rak + Ancient Spear to defeat White).

Dumas didn't react to Baam's twins wing, the same technique that threatened to rip Kallavan's arm off.
Dumas' body isn't weaker than his armour, in fact it seems stronger.
Dark change Baam is stronger than White, the only reason AA and Rak were relevant was because Baam decided to be stupid and try to inflict karmic punishment on White and he miscalculated

One could argue that White and Kallavan are both monsters too, they can easily kill Branch Head or Division Commander while toying around. One could also argue Dumas's real body is not build to withstand White's Arie sword (which cannot be dodged by towerborn).

Dumas no sell attacks who's one shot BH
Jinsung would have died before he could have approached Dumas, if he had so decided
Karaka is stronger than div com, they are no longer relevant in powerscaling since the coexistence wall

he can't dodge
but he can withstand
it's the number 1 strategy for beating an Arie, just go , withstand and kill the Arie before it kills you.
it's just that this strategy is going to get you killed against an Arie of a level equal to or higher than yours
Dumas is just going to ram into him
White will get turned into a porcupine

Dumas is above White and Kallavan with or without his armour

 

[Yelnats]

Dumas didn't react to Baam's twins wing, the same technique that threatened to rip Kallavan's arm off.
Dumas' body isn't weaker than his armour, in fact it seems stronger.
Dark change Baam is stronger than White, the only reason AA and Rak were relevant was because Baam decided to be stupid and try to inflict karmic punishment on White and he miscalculated


Dumas no sell attacks who's one shot BH
Jinsung would have died before he could have approached Dumas, if he had so decided
Karaka is stronger than div com, they are no longer relevant in powerscaling since the coexistence wall

he can't dodge
but he can withstand
it's the number 1 strategy for beating an Arie, just go , withstand and kill the Arie before it kills you.
it's just that this strategy is going to get you killed against an Arie of a level equal to or higher than yours
Dumas is just going to ram into him
White will get turned into a porcupine

Dumas is above White and Kallavan with or without his armour

First of all, I want to point out some things:

• I used word such as "might" and "could" to indicate possibility as nothing is confirmed
• Power level is fluid, it change, not remain constant.
• When I said Kallavan to White might be like Rock to Scissors, I was talking about post-power up Kallavan against post-flagship explosion White. Pre-power up Kallavan hardly able to counter-attack against White (at that point, White was not even at his peak, he eat more souls after the flagship explosion and he still hid his most precious sword).
• Baam had power up after his short "training" at Cat Tower. He also had temporary power up during Dark Twist. He also get a power ups after defeating White and gaining Leviathan but it doesn't bring him to the level he had during Dark Twist.
• Kallavan had power up during his fight against Lyborick.
• White had power up before his fight against Kallavan. He had another power up after the flagship explode. But he lost almost all at the end of Cat Tower.

Now you said Dumas did not react to Twin Wings but so is pre-power up Kallavan. Kallavan only react to Shinwonryu and Stardust (which is based on Shinwonryu). The reason Twin Wing almost rip Kallavan's arm is because it targeted the arm that had been wounded by Stardust (Kallavan miscalculate it here, also note that he had survived stronger such as Dragon Tiger Gate). It must be noted that Baam is stronger during his fight against Dumas but as his Twin Wing do not target part that has been wounded by Stardust or other shinwonryu attack, comparing them would be just speculation.

It must also be pointed out that White withstand Dark Orb-powered Stardust-Meteor Shower, he remains unwounded (the only attack that wounded him is the Ancient Spear... lol). It is Baam's most powerful shinwonryu-based attack which was executed during Baam's most powerful state as of now. So we should not discount White's durability just because he is an Arie.

It must also be pointed that pre-power up Kallavan do not want his body to get touched by any of White's attack, he block it with EoB, as Baam noted, he only do that when the attack pose a threat to him. Of course whether it pose a threat to Dumas's real body is another speculation which can also generate further speculation as White still hid his most previous sword against Kallavan.

We does not know the extent of Dumas's real body as Baam never hit him with shinwonryu attack. The only time Baam use shinwonryu against Dumas is to destroy Rosario Carrier. Aside of Shinwonryu which Dumas noted, Dumas also unwilling to receive Baam's improvised Dragon Tiger Gate without his armor (he stated that it threaten him), he stop Baam before the attack hit his real body.

Baam during Dark Twist is more powerful than White but being more powerful is not guarantee to victory. If Dark Twist Baam is weaker than Dumas, why would SIU feel the need to make Baam unable to attain it in his fight against Dumas? This last question is just speculation though it does not confirm Dark Twist Baam is stronger than Dumas.

Karaka is not that strong, his level might be higher but still close to Division Commander. He is just a nuissance for one-armed pre-power up Kallavan, even less against Dumas who know the secret of armor.

Dumas armor is not really strong, might be weaker than his real body but its advantage is it can be restored.

 

[O_n_Sly]

Dumas is above White and Kallavan with or without his armour

Dumas ain’t shit without his armor lol!!! JH would have defeated the real Dumas!!! Dumas almost pissed himself when Bam was about to launch DTG! JH’s flare waves are superior to Bam’s

 

[Big-Bird]

Now you said Dumas did not react to Twin Wings but so is pre-power up Kallavan. Kallavan only react to Shinwonryu and Stardust (which is based on Shinwonryu). The reason Twin Wing almost rip Kallavan's arm is because it targeted the arm that had been wounded by Stardust (Kallavan miscalculate it here, also note that he had survived stronger such as Dragon Tiger Gate). It must be noted that Baam is stronger during his fight against Dumas but as his Twin Wing do not target part that has been wounded by Stardust or other shinwonryu attack, comparing them would be just speculation.

it's not true, Kallavan mentions that the attack resonated through his whole body and would have taken his arm if it had been stronger, stardust only made a scratch and nowhere is it mentioned that Baam used the wound previously created by stardust.
And SIU doesn't hesitate to mention it when a pre-existing injury is aggravated by an attack.
Baam and Kallavan during the LS

Kallavan's twin wing injury is solely due to twin wing and nothing indicates or implies the opposite.

It must also be pointed out that White withstand Dark Orb-powered Stardust-Meteor Shower, he remains unwounded (the only attack that wounded him is the Ancient Spear... lol). It is Baam's most powerful shinwonryu-based attack which was executed during Baam's most powerful state as of now. So we should not discount White's durability just because he is an Arie.

I didn't say White had low durability, Dumas' spears are just great for puncturing HRs as Jinsung noted, and then getting impaled by Rosario.

It must also be pointed that pre-power up Kallavan do not want his body to get touched by any of White's attack, he block it with EoB, as Baam noted, he only do that when the attack pose a threat to him. Of course whether it pose a threat to Dumas's real body is another speculation which can also generate further speculation as White still hid his most previous sword against Kallavan.

the question is not whether White can't damage Dumas, but whether or not he can survive Dumas trying to kill him.

We does not know the extent of Dumas's real body as Baam never hit him with shinwonryu attack. The only time Baam use shinwonryu against Dumas is to destroy Rosario Carrier. Aside of Shinwonryu which Dumas noted, Dumas also unwilling to receive Baam's improvised Dragon Tiger Gate without his armor (he stated that it threaten him), he stop Baam before the attack hit his real body.

Kukuda was able to take a normal swr and was fine.
Dumas against swr move is unknow
but normal swr against won't do anything
This just shows that DTG is a technique that hits above its weight, which we already knew.

Baam during Dark Twist is more powerful than White but being more powerful is not guarantee to victory. If Dark Twist Baam is weaker than Dumas, why would SIU feel the need to make Baam unable to attain it in his fight against Dumas? This last question is just speculation though it does not confirm Dark Twist Baam is stronger than Dumas.

unless you messing around or it's not a 1v1 or some rare hax if you're stronger you win.
wins in TOG are just match-up or pure power

Baam dark change was much stronger than White, the only reason White was able to get close was because Baam allowed him to.

Karaka is not that strong, his level might be higher but still close to Division Commander. He is just a nuissance for one-armed pre-power up Kallavan, even less against Dumas who know the secret of armor.

that's exactly my point, at this point in the series the div co's are no longer relevant in the powerscaling and are therefore no longer worth mentioning
Elbaba would easily beat any div co, Dumas rip Elbaba head of with his feet

Dumas ain’t shit without his armor lol!!! JH would have defeated the real Dumas!!! Dumas almost pissed himself when Bam was about to launch DTG! JH’s flare waves are superior to Bam’s

See this?
If Dumas had wanted it, Jinsung would have died right here
no martial arts and certainly no DTG Jinsung would have died like a bum without being able to get near Dumas

Jinsung didn't approach Dumas to place the famous DTG you're talking about because he's so good, nah, just because Dumas allowed him to because he knew he was immortal and had no right to kill him.

Take off Dumas' armour and guess what?
Dumas will fight differently and not be careless


DTG is literally this

when your best bet is a literal hail Mary,it's not something to brag about

 

[Yelnats]

it's not true, Kallavan mentions that the attack resonated through his whole body and would have taken his arm if it had been stronger, stardust only made a scratch and nowhere is it mentioned that Baam used the wound previously created by stardust.
And SIU doesn't hesitate to mention it when a pre-existing injury is aggravated by an attack.
Baam and Kallavan during the LS

Kallavan's twin wing injury is solely due to twin wing and nothing indicates or implies the opposite

Everyone can see exactly that Baam use the Twin Wing on his arm. Reverberate through his body does not matter as it did not injure his body except the previously wounded arm, even Jinsung's Dragon Tiger Gate did far more than that.

Twin Wing wounded Kallavan when he did not protect himself with EoB. Twin Wing hit Dumas head on without leaving injury. So lets ignore the previous wound left by Stardust on Kallavan's arm and say Dumas's real body is stronger than Kallavan's pre-power up body, but so what? Getting unharmed by Twin Wing doesn't mean Dumas is not susceptible to White's attack.

What we know is that Kallavan's pre-power up body is also susceptible to White's attack hence he keep protecting himself with EoB. But that is not enough information to determine whether Dumas's real body is immune or suspectible to White's attack.

B can wound K. W can wound K. B cannot wound D. Does that mean W cannot wound D? Not necessarily.

It would have been different had we saw Baam hit Dumas with Stardust considering that Stardust is his only attack that pierce EoB. If Dumas unscatched by Stardust, it means he is not susceptible to most of the attack White used on Kallavan (did not include his last sword or the attack he used to force Kallavan to sacrifice his arm).

the question is not whether White can't damage Dumas, but whether or not he can survive Dumas trying to kill him.

You are the one who claim Dumas real body is stronger that his armor. So you brought this topic yourself. It is not fair to ask whether White can survive Dumas trying to kill him without asking the reverse. Both are good at attacking from distance. So we have 2 questions without confirmed answer hence if we say Dumas will definitely beat White or vice versa, that will merely be based on assumptions.

I didn't say White had low durability, Dumas' spears are just great for puncturing HRs as Jinsung noted, and then getting impaled by Rosario.

You are the one who claim Dumas will just ram into White and turn him into porcupine, so you are the one questoning his durability.

Kukuda was able to take a normal swr and was fine.
Dumas against swr move is unknow
but normal swr against won't do anything
This just shows that DTG is a technique that hits above its weight, which we already knew.

That is precisely why your argument about Dumas's real body cannot be confirmed. It's not mere simple Shinwonryu, it's transcendent skill developed from Shinwonryu. We have seen White withstand Dark Orb-powered Shinwonryu-Stardust-Meteor Shower which is Baam's ultimate attack. But we had not seen Dumas's real body got hit by any Shinwonryu attack. We only know from Dumas's own statement that Baam's improvised Dragon Tiger Gate threaten him (hence he didn't let it hit him).

As for Kukuda, we cannot confirm whether he was wounded by that simple Shinwonryu or not as the part that got hit (lower abdomen) was not shown afterwards.

unless you messing around or it's not a 1v1 or some rare hax if you're stronger you win.
wins in TOG are just match-up or pure power

The one stronger not necessarily win, even when not messing around, momentum is also a factor. If they made slight mistake, the result could be the reverse. See Jinsung vs Kallavan, had Jinsung apply finishing blow, Kallavan would have died but Jinsung let his guard down instead as he thought Kallavan already die, it allow Kallavan to catch and destroy his arms, if Kallavan did not destroy his arms, Jinsung can still win.

Baam dark change was much stronger than White, the only reason White was able to get close was because Baam allowed him to.

Stronger is confirmed but much stronger is mere assumption. The fact remains that Baam did not make any wound on White, Rak did.

that's exactly my point, at this point in the series the div co's are no longer relevant in the powerscaling and are therefore no longer worth mentioning
Elbaba would easily beat any div co, Dumas rip Elbaba head of with his feet

Elbaba? Dumas could beat him with the toe at his left. Purdidiy, Perseus, and WGW would easily beat Div Co, middle BH might be a bit higher than Div Co but not by much, Elbaba is on the lower end though, Cheonhee (who could survive Karaka) would beat him.

 

[O_n_Sly]

See this?
If Dumas had wanted it, Jinsung would have died right here
no martial arts and certainly no DTG Jinsung would have died like a bum without being able to get near Dumas

Jinsung didn't approach Dumas to place the famous DTG you're talking about because he's so good, nah, just because Dumas allowed him to because he knew he was immortal and had no right to kill him.

Take off Dumas' armour and guess what?
Dumas will fight differently and not be careless


DTG is literally this

when your best bet is a literal hail Mary,it's not something to brag about

And what exactly was the real Dumas doing again?!?! Oh right, hiding behind an avatar in another realm!!! Anyone could put on a headset press virtual buttons lol!!! Just like Rachel did on HF with her invincible avatar!!!

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2024, Original Post Date: Mar 31, 2024 ---

The minute Bam and friends(REGULARS) showed up in his realm, the coward burrowed inside his fortress where he had full control and separated the 3!!!

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2024 ---

The LPB BHs would have smoked the real Dumas!!! Dumas is just another lame ass Kirin, but I have to give Kirin credit for finally getting off his knees!

 

[Yelnats]

The LPB BHs would have smoked the real Dumas!!!

Baam is stronger than LPB BHs. Unless you count Lobadon and/or Kirin as BH.

 

[O_n_Sly]

Honestly looking back, you 100% have to factor in fatigue for both Bam and Rak! They had just fought and defeated HRs! Chances are the 3 would have faired much better had they all been fresh just like Dumas, whom has not lifted a finger ever!!!

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2024, Original Post Date: Mar 31, 2024 ---

Baam is stronger than LPB BHs. Unless you count Lobadon and/or Kirin as BH.

Strength means nothing if one side is exhausted from fighting! EVK vs WGW, Lyb vs Kallavan

 

[Yelnats]

Dumas, whom has not lifted a finger ever!!!

Like he can...

He lost his arms in a fight against Traum. I guess you don't think fighting FH is exhausting.

Oh right, you were talking about his real body as if the armor do not require his real body to spend power. Is that confirmed or just assumption?

His armor is like machine and the heart/core is engine. What is the fuel?