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Darklord#10

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What do you not agree with?
I don't agree that fire dragon king natsu is stronger than laxus and erza. I know jellal is being prepped up as laxus tier but I don't really see him being laxus level even if the story tries to portray it that way
 

grey matter

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I don't agree that fire dragon king natsu is stronger than laxus and erza. I know jellal is being prepped up as laxus tier but I don't really see him being laxus level even if the story tries to portray it that way
Current version of FDKM is. He can access his DF durability, making him extremely hard to damage, tanking attacks that would otherwise one shot him.
FDKM always had top tier attack power, as we have seen in Alverass arc, as well as Aldo arc.

He also fought the BDSK with the best feats and portrayal by far.

So, why shouldn't current FDKM Natsu be above Laxus/Erza?

As for Jellol. Honestly he has little to no anti-feats, he is simply lacking feats. So, I go by portrayal and put in in same level as Laxus.
 

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Yeah I want to see how you'll react if natsu 1v1 a god dragon. Maybe you'll find another way to twist everything. I also want to see how you'll react when every member of team natsu fights decent character and gray gets shafted. Lol strategies. Like zeref was nerfed or zero was nerfed. Why would ignia want to fight natsu if he wasn't the strongest? Sure on a normal day there's people stronger than him. But natsu has the potential to surpass Erza, laxus we've been told this many times.
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One moment you say statement>feats, but the moment the statement doesn't fit your argument you change
"Yeah I want to see how you'll react if natsu 1v1 a god dragon". Pretty sure I already addressed this in the first post. Ignia vs Natsu is way down the road. If Mashima intends to portray it the way Ignia wants it, then yeah Natsu will have to become the strongest. But the future and the present are not the same. Currently Natsu is not the strongest and it's people like you that prompted me to write this.

Also when was it stated in TOH or Oracion Seis arc that Natsu was the absolute strongest? He wasn't even going to beat Jellal if not for Erza injuring him prior. And Natsu was getting overwhelmed in dragon force until he used flame of emotion. He's not the only one that can use the power of emotion and Jellal himself was the source of his dragon force power which mean a POE boost for him would have been greater since his base was already stronger.
 

Darklord#10

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Also when was it stated in TOH or Oracion Seis arc that Natsu was the absolute strongest? He wasn't even going to beat Jellal if not for Erza injuring him prior. And Natsu was getting overwhelmed in dragon force until he used flame of emotion. He's not the only one that can use the power of emotion and Jellal himself was the source of his dragon force power which mean a POE boost for him would have been greater since his base was already stronger
Lol at ft villains using poe. Even zeref's POE wasn't greater than natsu's POE. Zeref is probably the only villain that used his emotion to fuel his magic. Ft villains don't get the luxury of POE
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ently Natsu is not the strongest and it's people like you that prompted me to write this.
Lol I never said he's the strongest. I've put laxus Erza and gildarts above natsu but peak natsu, natsu at his best is way stronger than the three of them combined. Peak natsu burnt infinite magic power and time. We're digressing from the purpose of the thread so I'll leave at that
 

Jintohaku

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Ok, sure.
I agree that he wasn't the strongest until Alverez arc, he needed powerups to compete with the villains.

Yes, 2-3x power boost does make him the absolute strongest "protagonist" in ToH and OS arc.
In ToH, he was as strong as Jellal. In OS arc, he was almost as strong as Zero (without PoF).

But by Alverez arc, Natsu could willingly use Dragon Force as his trump card, meaning there should really be no debate from this point onwards. Not only has the gap between base Natsu and the "strong" good guys reduce, he also improved his DF (more scales) and is able to use it willingly.
He also got a new mode, FDKM, which allows him to compete with Laxus, Jellal and Erza (not necessarily above.....just compete). From there on, it became:
DF Natsu >>> Gildarts > Laxus/Jellal > FDKM Natsu/Erza > rest


Currently though, he gained an upgrade to FDKM, that allows him to access fire dragon king scales, which is basically his DF durability. This makes him the most durable FT member BY FAR, like nobody can compete with his raw durability currently. While other stats remain the same, for his FDKM.
His DF further improved since Alverez, allowing him to use not only his own fire element, but also generate fire of same quality of Igneel/Ignia/Atlas-Flames.
So right now, it is:
DF Natsu >>>> Gildarts > FDKM Natsu > Laxus/Jellal > Erza > rest


Current DF Natsu can really solo the entire guild.
Go to his DF, use a high end attack spanning several cities AOE (similar to the one he used to finish Aldoron). And that's it, every FT member get vap'd right there.
DF Natsu is so strong that his attack vap'd the entire body of FH Zeref, as well as created a hole on dragon Aldoron's body
In TOH he was going to get blasted with abyss break if not for Erza fighting Jellal prior. In Oracion Seis arc Zero was overwhelming him for most of the time he was in DF.

I'm kind of unsure where the idea that his DF got significantly stronger came from. Design wise the most scales he's had in the original series was in Tartaros. There we saw his arms legs and torso covered in scales. Despite this his DF performance wasn't anything more than what we'd seen prior. DF alone wasn't enough to put down Mard Geer. When he used dragon force against Zeref, he had barely any scales. Just some on his face like before.

There's no indication that his FDK scales gives him greater durability than others. He's had this ability since he unlocked the form but Erza's durability feats have still been greater. All of the BDSK were stated to be equal, and aside from Haku who was holding back, every other BDSK was using their best attacks. Erza and Laxus still withstood those attacks and actually beat their opponents while Natsu wasn't able to overcome Suzaku with just FDK. Him imitating the qualities of other dragon's fire is good but the strength still doesn't match up to the originals. There's no indication that DF Natsu can solo the guild lol. Despite the fact that Selene threw the fight against Suzaku, the level of power she was using was still greater than nerfed Mercphobia and Aldoron. Suzaku being able to hang with that for even a little bit means that the other BDSK scale above nerfed Aldoron as well. Also where are you getting that Natsu's attack spanned several cities? That was Aldoron's body self destructing.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Lol at ft villains using poe. Even zeref's POE wasn't greater than natsu's POE. Zeref is probably the only villain that used his emotion to fuel his magic. Ft villains don't get the luxury of POE
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



Lol I never said he's the strongest. I've put laxus Erza and gildarts above natsu but peak natsu, natsu at his best is way stronger than the three of them combined. Peak natsu burnt infinite magic power and time. We're digressing from the purpose of the thread so I'll leave at that
Jellal is a villain? We still stuck in TOH I see. Anyway I've previously seen you make arguments that Natsu has to be on par with full power DGs and the nerfs don't make sense. I'm just saying that doesn't have to be the case as the story has worked so long without him being the strongest.
 

Ratrace

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I think you're heavily misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm saying that Natsu needed a powerup to face the big bad because he's not the strongest without them. For example with Zero, Erza was there in that arc and was stronger than Natsu. And Jellal was the source of Natsu's powerup in that fight. Yet the solution wasn't for either of those characters to face Zero or for them to get a powerup and beat him. Same reason the scenario was setup for Natsu to get a powerup with etherion and for Jellal to be injured by Erza prior so that Natsu could get the final blow in. Gray was just as strong as Natsu in that arc and Erza was stronger, yet the author didn't have one of them finish off Jellal. Same thing with future rogue. Erza and Laxus were stronger than Natsu in that arc, but instead of healing them up and having them beat future Rogue, He has Natsu come in and get a powerup through atlas flame.

This happens over and over again where Natsu is the one to take out the big bad (except Galuna island and Tartaros) through a powerup or a nerf to the enemy. He's not the strongest or the only one that can do the job, but thematically he represents fairy tails' values the most so he's the one that gets put in those positions (plus he's the main character). Mashima recognizes this which is why he always finds a way to close the gap for Natsu. In the current story, people are finding it weird that Natsu's opponents are always getting nerfed and they think he should be rapidly getting stronger than everyone else. I'm just pointing out that this is how the story always worked. by the way I never mentioned "strategies". When I said tactics, I was talking about the things Mashima does to close the gap between Natsu and his enemies (nerfs and powerups). The entire thing is from a writing perspective, sorry if that was confusing.

Also be for real. A 2-3x power boost made him the "absolute strongest" in TOH and Oracion Seis arcs?
He didn’t beat the big bad in Phantom lord as well
 

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He didn’t beat the big bad in Phantom lord as well
Yeah that too. There are some exceptions. But at that time Jose was too much for any of the kids. But among the members of phantom, Gajeel was most prominent.
 

Darklord#10

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Anyway I've previously seen you make arguments that Natsu has to be on par with full power DGs and the nerfs don't make sense. I'm just saying that doesn't have to be the case as the story has worked so long without him being the strongest.
Not sure if I've said natsu's been on par with full power dragon gods. That can't be possible
 

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The Dogramag arc was just a waste of time and didn't add anything big to the story other than Ignia's goal (which of course will fail). This arc makes absolutely no sense in terms of powerscaling the fights were badly written the BDSKs and Dragon Eaters were very bland and Diabolos' sympathy towards Selene and FT is hypocritical and sickening. Fortunately, I started 100YQ in November 2022 otherwise I would have given up. I hope that this new arc will finally fix all the problems of the Spin-off and that Gold Owl will not be a Spriggan 3.0.
 

Darklord#10

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The Dogramag arc was just a waste of time and didn't add anything big to the story other than Ignia's goal (which of course will fail). This arc makes absolutely no sense in terms of powerscaling the fights were badly written the BDSKs and Dragon Eaters were very bland and Diabolos' sympathy towards Selene and FT is hypocritical and sickening. Fortunately, I started 100YQ in November 2022 otherwise I would have given up. I hope that this new arc will finally fix all the problems of the Spin-off and that Gold Owl will not be a Spriggan 3.0.
Lol I've seen some people who like labyrinth arc. Only good thing about labyrinth arc is chapter 107 every other thing is trash
 

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The Dogramag arc was just a waste of time and didn't add anything big to the story other than Ignia's goal (which of course will fail). This arc makes absolutely no sense in terms of powerscaling the fights were badly written the BDSKs and Dragon Eaters were very bland and Diabolos' sympathy towards Selene and FT is hypocritical and sickening. Fortunately, I started 100YQ in November 2022 otherwise I would have given up.
It's been all downhill since mid Aldoron arc.

The hype slowly died down, to almost non existent now.

I hope that this new arc will finally fix all the problems of the Spin-off and that Gold Owl will not be a Spriggan 3.0.
Wow

@Darklord#10 Profile pic
 

Darklord#10

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Mh is probably the best fT forum I've been on. Atleast we have some reasonable guys in here and to be honest some wanks in here make me laugh so hard.
 

Cosmicstar

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Mh is probably the best fT forum I've been on. Atleast we have some reasonable guys in here and to be honest some wanks in here make me laugh so hard.
Yea not really. In the average discussion sure but when talking powerscaling or battles nah this forum is as bad as the others.
 

Darklord#10

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Yea not really. In the average discussion sure but when talking powerscaling or battles nah this forum is as bad as the others.
Lol mh is better tbh. Someone on Reddit try to convince me that Lucy has the same MP as Erza and fire dragon king natsu. I also saw on Reddit one Erza fans were complaining about how Erza didn't do anything in Alvarez arc. People on Reddit were doing damage control because Erza said natsu was the one that Beat acnologia. Men I've seen so many nonsense on Reddit and comic Vine even on the discord it's same thing. Yeah the power scaling is bad but that's mostly due to fT having inconsistent power scaling
 

Cosmicstar

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Lol mh is better tbh. Someone on Reddit try to convince me that Lucy has the same MP as Erza and fire dragon king natsu. I also saw on Reddit one Erza fans were complaining about how Erza didn't do anything in Alvarez arc. People on Reddit were doing damage control because Erza said natsu was the one that Beat acnologia. Men I've seen so many nonsense on Reddit and comic Vine even on the discord it's same thing. Yeah the power scaling is bad but that's mostly due to fT having inconsistent power scaling
They are just as bad on here when it comes to powerscaling and fights. Actually maybe not as bad but still really bad.
 

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The Dogramag arc was just a waste of time and didn't add anything big to the story other than Ignia's goal (which of course will fail). This arc makes absolutely no sense in terms of powerscaling the fights were badly written the BDSKs and Dragon Eaters were very bland and Diabolos' sympathy towards Selene and FT is hypocritical and sickening. Fortunately, I started 100YQ in November 2022 otherwise I would have given up. I hope that this new arc will finally fix all the problems of the Spin-off and that Gold Owl will not be a Spriggan 3.0.
Speaking facts
 

SleipnirX

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Idk if this counts as an unpopular opinion now, but at the time it certainly seemed to be. I think both the time skips (7 years after the Tenrou Island exams and 1 year after the Tartarous incident) really messed with characterisation for several characters, and worse undermined one of the core tenets of the series (that being the Fairy Tail guild is like a family and they’d do anything for each other) and this series has never really recovered from that.

starting with the 7 year skip, one unintended consequence was to really draw attention to the fact the guild always had two tiers of members, basically everyone who was on Tenrou island (the gang with backstory and at least some agency), and everyone who wasn’t (filler characters there to pad out the guild’s membership and provide the occasional comedic moment). While this was inevitable in a series like this (I understand giving Everyone their own background arc wouldn’t be possible) it had been much less visible before, and it was easier to sort of believe the ‘one big family’ spiel. I can understand why he wanted Fairy Tail to be an underdog for the Grand Magic Games, but he really messed up some fundamental dynamics in doing it, and the Guild sort of went from feeling like an important home for the characters previously to just a background location for them to regroup between missions afterwards. That’s particularly bad for a series where the smaller slice of life moments were among if not the best moments it had to offer. In terms of messing up characterisation I’ll just go over a couple of missed opportunities and a couple of characters who took weird turns afterwards, as frankly this skip should have had meaningful positive and negative consequences for everyone in the story.

Romeo is the obvious missed opportunity. If anyone was there waiting to grow into his own and had the motive to try and fill the gap left by Natsu’s absence, well…

If Laxus had missed out on the Timeskip, he could’ve matured into a really compelling guildmaster if he’d gone back to take up the reins - and being in that role wouldn’t necessarily have stopped the overall slide of Fairy Tail’s ranking as he’d be tied up with paperwork as master a lot of the time.

Second origin was a total cop-out, Natsu in particular I thought was really harmed by it. It made the 4 dragonslayer battle a while later a total farce. Either Natsu and Gajeel should have been forced to work together to win against Sting and Rogue, or they should have failed to stop the infighting and lost as a consequence.

With the year long skip, the fact that everyone just shrugged and went their separate ways, with very few implied to have kept in any sort of close contact is weird for a self-described ‘family’. The fact Lucy didn’t feel able to reach out to anyone during this period is also really weird when they’d all put their lives on the line to keep her safe from Phantom Lord at that time less than a year prior (At least as perceived by half the guild members and Lucy herself). This is also feels like a massive regression for Lucy’s self confidence which had been building up over the course of the series. If she was that lonely she still couldn’t bring herself to reach out to anyone she’d known without having Natsu come and hold her hand first? Really?

Evil Gray when he was already teasing evil Natsu was a bit much, and it was never explained why Gray killed Frosch in this period? The fact he led Juvia on then just abandoned her without a word as to why always sat wrong with me too. The fact Gray and Erza took off without even speaking to Lucy first is another really weird contrivance to arrive at the isolated Lucy point as well. Post timeskip Erza also went through a phase where it felt like she’d given up trying to improve herself and just become a Natsu cheerleader… thankfully that wasn’t followed through with. The fight against Ikusatsunagi at the climax of the Avatar arc was a perfect opportunity to call back to the Lullaby 3 on 1 fight, but no, just another Natsu one punch.

I do feel like at least Wendy should have defected for good. If everyone really did go and move on then he should have made that a consequence of the guild being gone for a year. I can understand those who grew up from children in FT jumping at the opportunity to go back but Wendy had only been there for a few months, so arguably she should have been even better friends with Chelia and everyone at Lamia Scale after a whole year! Overall the lack of changes like this just made it feel like a contrived holding pattern for Natsu’s dramatic powered up re-emergence, not an event which actually had any meaning!

Finally, ‘never really recovered’ may seem a bit dramatic, but I really think something went missing in these skips. It felt like the series’ scope contracted, the small amount of effort put into developing characters outside of the core 4 stopped almost entirely, it’s just become about throwing Natsu up against increasingly ludicrous enemies cuz he’s just that amazingly stronk now. Even Erza and Gray are almost never the ones to help turn the tide anymore (and that’s on the rare occasion things actually are going against them in the first place!). I’m glad 100YQ has sort of given us a bit of worldbuilding again, even though it’s been quite limited. I would like to see a return to some of the drive the characters had in the early part of the series too.

Sorry this was a bit of a long post, I’ve been feeling a bit nostalgic for this series recently and I used to love doing a breakdown of the story dynamics!
 

Darklord#10

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Giant gajeel was pointless. What did it accomplish within three minutes? Can someone share with me, I want to see your thoughts on this. Imo it just pissed the already pissed off aldo-chan
 

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Giant gajeel was pointless. What did it accomplish within three minutes? Can someone share with me, I want to see your thoughts on this. Imo it just pissed the already pissed off aldo-chan
Totally agree. Maybe it was an excuse to give Gajeel some time to shine because he previously took a L against a holding back Natsu. He was beaten up so bad he couldn't even defend his pregnant girlfriend
 

Darklord#10

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Totally agree. Maybe it was an excuse to give Gajeel some time to shine because he previously took a L against a holding back Natsu. He was beaten up so bad he couldn't even defend his pregnant girlfriend
What was mashima thinking writing that fight cuz aldoron stomped a brandish+gajeel combo in three minutes and he proceeds to absolutely stomp the whole vicinity with thickets
 
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