Luffy's arms didn't break after exchanging one hit with Katakuri, so Luffy finally winning against Katakuri wasn't as impossible as Sanji breaking his leg after just one hit.
Thinking Vergo ran away "because he realized Sanji was too strong" is straight up fanfiction.
Of course, his body made of rubber. He won't break like body would, but he did get his ribs pierce and many thought he would lose the fight with that, but look what happen as he beat Katakuri in the end.
What fanfiction you reading? Sanji kept fighting with same 'broken leg'. Did he scream in pain and fall to the ground and stop fighting? No. He kept fighting back to back with him until Vergo choose to leave, not him. He ran away just like that after Doflamingo give him order to kill G5 and Tashigi who got his way, but didn't do it. Your only one reading this wrong if you don't think Vergo was having trouble as he very much was if you can't get past an nerf man to do your objective.
Actually, worse than fanfiction. It directly contradicts a panel of Sanji's leg bone breaking and his own thoughts, as well as all we saw later that Vergo was capable of (much more than he showed against Sanji) while Sanji started the fight with his strongest techniques.
Of course, his body made of rubber. He won't break like body would, but he did get his ribs pierce and many thought he would lose the fight with that, but look what happen as he beat Katakuri in the end.
One fanfiction you reading? Sanji kept fighting with same 'broken leg'. Did he scream in pain and fall to the ground and stop fighting? No. He kept fighting back to back with him until Vergo choose to leave, not him. He ran away just like that after Doflamingo give him order to kill G5 and Tashigi who got his way, but didn't do it. Your only one reading this wrong if you don't think Vergo was having trouble as he very much was if you can't get past an nerf man to do your objective.
I compared his leg bone cracking to Zoro's sword cracking. It wasn't broken in half, but if that's the damage he got from one hit, Sanji's leg would have cracked in half if the fight had lasted longer. That much is obvious, just like it's obvious from that point he would be hurting his leg with hi own kicks from that point.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
And Luffy's arms can break. Rubber has elasticity, yes, but haki hits ignore said elasticity, so he can be broken just like Crocodile could be hurt while wet.
But that's missing the point.
The point was that Luffy's main strengths were there and that it didn't take a single punch from Katakuri to crack Luffy's weapons (his fists I guess, in his case), while a single kick from Vergo cracked Sanji's leg.
Actually, worse than fanfiction. It directly contradicts a panel of Sanji's leg bone breaking and his own thoughts, as well as all we saw later that Vergo was capable of (much more than he showed against Sanji) while Sanji started the fight with his strongest techniques.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I compared his leg bone cracking to Zoro's sword cracking. It wasn't broken in half, but if that's the damage he got from one hit, Sanji's leg would have cracked in half if the fight had lasted longer. That much is obvious, just like it's obvious from that point he would be hurting his leg with hi own kicks from that point.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
And Luffy's arms can break. Rubber has elasticity, yes, but haki hits ignore said elasticity, so he can be broken just like Crocodile could be hurt while wet.
But that's missing the point.
The point was that Luffy's main strengths were there and that it didn't take a single punch from Katakuri to crack Luffy's weapons (his fists I guess, in his case), while a single kick from Vergo cracked Sanji's leg.
Nah, your only one with worse claims as you contradict saying Sanji didn't continue fighting after his leg got hurt and Vergo didn't run away when clear he was first to leave the fight, not Sanji. Also who say Sanji used his strongest moves? That's a bold lie there and he was nerf thanks to Nami. It was shown prior to the fight, Usopp comment on Sanji's body not being 100%, so again your picking and choosing what you want to hear. Sanji while he did get damage, I am not denying that, doesn't mean he was down and out as your trying to push. Sanji would beat him in the end as he was regaining his adjustment to his body after being away for long and if same thing with Luffy was him able to go far despite pierce rib, Sanji would go far in beating Vergo in the end. Also your excuse on pushing 'one-shot' fails when he still use same leg back to back in blocking Vergo's kicks. If it was true his legs couldn't take another hit, then he wouldn't continue blocking with said leg.
Again, you got fixed what you see as canon and stop pushing wrong stuff by mistake. Also isn't this thread about Sanji vs Vergo in his current state in Wano? Sanji still beat his ass, but much easier given his feats he shown in beating PO and handling YVs who are tougher threats compare to Vergo.
The right leg tilting is just an impression you're getting. Nothing else. There's nothing weird with the pose of that roundhouse kick other than Oda's usual weird scalling.
The right leg is fucking tilting to his left side, that's no impression, that's what we're seeing. Tat's an impossible stance, not to mention that the inside of the foot is facing upwards which means I'm right and you're wrong. What I'm saying is possible from ananatomical standpoint; what you're proposing is hands down the most bizarre thing I've ever seen people arguing. I've seen some absurd things, but this definitely takes the prize. You people forgot about there being something called a pelvis that forbids such a pose.
Again, you got fixed what you see as canon and stop pushing wrong stuff by mistake. Also isn't this thread about Sanji vs Vergo in his current state in Wano? Sanji still beat his ass, but much easier given his feats he shown in beating PO and handling YVs who are tougher threats compare to Vergo.
Nah, your only one with worse claims as you contradict saying Sanji didn't continue fighting after his leg got hurt and Vergo didn't run away when clear he was first to leave the fight, not Sanji.
Vergo didn't run away because he was going to lose to Sanji.
The narrative you're trying to push is like saying...
Imagine you and I are fighting on the street. Imagine you're beating my ass. Then suddenly at the end of the street you see someone else holding a gun to the head of someone you love, for whatever reason, so you decide to stop beating my ass to go save that person. Would you say you ran away from me?
Of course not.
Vergo had to rush to stop Law because it was a much more urgent matter than Sanji and the marines.
Also who say Sanji used his strongest moves? That's a bold lie there and he was nerf thanks to Nami. It was shown prior to the fight, Usopp comment on Sanji's body not being 100%, so again your picking and choosing what you want to hear.
He may have not been at his 100% but he used Diable Jambe which is the strongest Sanji can get (except for Raid Suit now, of course). So it's not a lie to say those were Sanji's strongest moves
Sanji while he did get damage, I am not denying that, doesn't mean he was down and out as your trying to push. Sanji would beat him in the end as he was regaining his adjustment to his body after being away for long and if same thing with Luffy was him able to go far despite pierce rib, Sanji would go far in beating Vergo in the end.
You keep saying Sanji would win "because he was regaigning his strength", while ignoring a short clash that lasted less than 10 seconds ended with his leg broken and him having visual trouble walking and even acknowledging in his mind that it would have been bad if the fight had lasted longer. Sanji may have been regaining better control of his body but the damage on his leg was only going to keep getting worse.
On the other hand, you keep suggesting Sanji was "getting stronger" but keep ignoring that he started off with Diable Jambe while Vergo didn't use black armament, despite knowing he's a character known for his strong armament haki and that has the ability to cover his entire body with it. You also know he has a weapon that he wasn't using against Sanji. You keep hyping Sanji's strength wihout really justifying your words and arguing that he was in a nerfed state while ignoring the fact that Vergo wasn't even serious and objectively wasn't using half of his arsenal against Sanji, who started off with Diable Jambe and already had a broken leg.
Also your excuse on pushing 'one-shot' fails when he still use same leg back to back in blocking Vergo's kicks. If it was true his legs couldn't take another hit, then he wouldn't continue blocking with said leg.
He used the same leg to block one or two more kicks, which obviously further affected the crack on his leg and, going by Sanji's words, it would have been bad for him (and his leg, since it was the pain in the leg that made him think this) if the fight had gone on.
The fight may have lasted longer, sure, but Sanji wasn't winning that. He was at a growing disadvantage despite Vergo not being serious.
The right leg is fucking tilting to his left side, that's no impression, that's what we're seeing. Tat's an impossible stance, not to mention that the inside of the foot is facing upwards which means I'm right and you're wrong. What I'm saying is possible from ananatomical standpoint; what you're proposing is hands down the most bizarre thing I've ever seen people arguing. I've seen some absurd things, but this definitely takes the prize. You people forgot about there being something called a pelvis that forbids such a pose.
The way you're describing how I see his pose is exactly how I feel about your proposal.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
I edited the picture you posted before. You can see his left hip is forward (because, as we saw in the previous panel, he's throwing a roundhouse kick). However, it's a roundhouse kick from a 247 cm tall man. Add that and Oda's sometimes weird scalling in his drawings, especially in those with perspective like this one, and you get a little weird looking panel.
Vergo is facing Sanji. His right leg is facing Sanji, his left leg is lifted. You can disagree all you want.
To discuss current Sanji we need to discuss the only time they clashed. That's if you want to discuss it with facts and not just Sanji fanatism.
Vergo didn't run away because he was going to lose to Sanji.
The narrative you're trying to push is like saying...
Imagine you and I are fighting on the street. Imagine you're beating my ass. Then suddenly you see at the end of the street you see someone else holding a gun to the head of someone you love, for whatever reason, so you decide to stop beating my ass to go save that person. Would you say you ran away from me?
Of course not.
Vergo had to rush to stop Law because it was a much more urgent matter than Sanji and the marines.
He may have not been at his 100% but he used Diable Jambe which is the strongest Sanji can get (except for Raid Suit now, of course). So it's not a lie to say those were Sanji's strongest moves
You keep saying Sanji would win "because he was regaigning his strength", while ignoring a short clash that lasted less than 10 seconds ended with his leg broken and him having visual trouble walking and even acknowledging in his mind that it would have been bad if the fight had lasted longer. Sanji may have been regaining better control of his body but the damage on his leg was only going to keep getting worse.
On the other hand, you keep suggesting Sanji was "getting stronger" but keep ignoring that he started off with Diable Jambe while Vergo didn't use black armament, despite knowing he's a character known for his strong armament haki and that has the ability to cover his entire body with it. You also know he has a weapon that he wasn't using against Sanji. You keep hyping Sanji's strength wihout really justifying your words and arguing that he was in a nerfed state while ignoring the fact that Vergo wasn't even serious and objectively wasn't using half of his arsenal against Sanji, who started off with Diable Jambe and already had a broken leg.
He used the same leg to block one or two more kicks, which obviously further affected the crack on his leg and, going by Sanji's words, it would have been bad for him (and his leg, since it was the pain in the leg that made him think this) if the fight had gone on.
The fight may have lasted longer, sure, but Sanji wasn't winning that. He was at a growing disadvantage despite Vergo not being serious.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
The way you're describing how I see his pose is exactly how I feel about your proposal.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
I edited the picture you posted before. You can see his left hip is forward (because, as we saw in the previous panel, he's throwing a roundhouse kick). However, it's a roundhouse kick from a 247 cm tall man. Add that and Oda's sometimes weird scalling in his drawings, especially in those with perspective like this one, and you get a little weird looking panel.
Vergo is facing Sanji. His right leg is facing Sanji, his left leg is lifted. You can disagree all you want.
You apparently watch so much anime you lost touch with reality and forgot what a pelvis is. Do you know what center of mass is? And why is it affected negatively by what you're proposing? Why can't you emualte this pose? This is hands down the most bizarre things I've ever seen in my life
You apparently watch so much anime you lost touch with reality and forgot what a pelvis is. Do you know what center of mass is? And why is it affected negatively by what you're proposing? Why can't you emualte this pose? This is hands down the most bizarre things I've ever seen in my life
I'm sorry but it's easier to emulate than he twisting his right leg sideways so much that it's upwards and using it to clash a kick, which is what that being his right leg would imply. Not to mention the fact that he was preparing a left kick just one panel earlier just to do that nonsense would imply he just did a weird "dance" in front of Sanji for no reason before "kicking".
The pelvis is there. I even made you a sketch. If you follow the pattern on his coat up the side of his body you can actually follow the curve and see that his left hip is forward on that panel.
I'm sorry if you still can't picture it, I can't do more for you.
You apparently watch so much anime you lost touch with reality and forgot what a pelvis is. Do you know what center of mass is? And why is it affected negatively by what you're proposing? Why can't you emualte this pose? This is hands down the most bizarre things I've ever seen in my life
Btw, you do know that despite it being a panel, it's supposed to happen fast and as a result of a kick, right? While Sanji only blocks. We can take time to appreciate it but it's supposed to happen in a instant. If for some reason you try to emulate it (and take into account Vergo's height for the pose since you can actually calculate how high he's lifted his leg and it isn't that much) in front of the mirror and fall to the ground, it'll be for two reasons mainly:
1- Oda draws weird fighting panels sometime, it's not new. It's his style.
2- That's a fast kick in movement, not a standing stance.
To discuss current Sanji we need to discuss the only time they clashed. That's if you want to discuss it with facts and not just Sanji fanatism.
Vergo didn't run away because he was going to lose to Sanji.
The narrative you're trying to push is like saying...
Imagine you and I are fighting on the street. Imagine you're beating my ass. Then suddenly at the end of the street you see someone else holding a gun to the head of someone you love, for whatever reason, so you decide to stop beating my ass to go save that person. Would you say you ran away from me?
Of course not.
Vergo had to rush to stop Law because it was a much more urgent matter than Sanji and the marines.
He may have not been at his 100% but he used Diable Jambe which is the strongest Sanji can get (except for Raid Suit now, of course). So it's not a lie to say those were Sanji's strongest moves
You keep saying Sanji would win "because he was regaigning his strength", while ignoring a short clash that lasted less than 10 seconds ended with his leg broken and him having visual trouble walking and even acknowledging in his mind that it would have been bad if the fight had lasted longer. Sanji may have been regaining better control of his body but the damage on his leg was only going to keep getting worse.
On the other hand, you keep suggesting Sanji was "getting stronger" but keep ignoring that he started off with Diable Jambe while Vergo didn't use black armament, despite knowing he's a character known for his strong armament haki and that has the ability to cover his entire body with it. You also know he has a weapon that he wasn't using against Sanji. You keep hyping Sanji's strength wihout really justifying your words and arguing that he was in a nerfed state while ignoring the fact that Vergo wasn't even serious and objectively wasn't using half of his arsenal against Sanji, who started off with Diable Jambe and already had a broken leg.
He used the same leg to block one or two more kicks, which obviously further affected the crack on his leg and, going by Sanji's words, it would have been bad for him (and his leg, since it was the pain in the leg that made him think this) if the fight had gone on.
The fight may have lasted longer, sure, but Sanji wasn't winning that. He was at a growing disadvantage despite Vergo not being serious.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
The way you're describing how I see his pose is exactly how I feel about your proposal.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
I edited the picture you posted before. You can see his left hip is forward (because, as we saw in the previous panel, he's throwing a roundhouse kick). However, it's a roundhouse kick from a 247 cm tall man. Add that and Oda's sometimes weird scalling in his drawings, especially in those with perspective like this one, and you get a little weird looking panel.
Vergo is facing Sanji. His right leg is facing Sanji, his left leg is lifted. You can disagree all you want.
Of course, but it's shown you can get stronger on each arc, so you won't be same from before, trying to push Sanji have trouble even right now, doesn't fit logic and more you downplaying than being honest. Nothing to do fanboyism, just the truth.
Vergo ran away as he couldn't finish the job in both ways on not beating Sanji or killing G5 and Tashigi and lol, that is poor example you use as that is not the case in Sanji vs Vergo fight. That doesn't prove or push anything, you use wrong logic especially we know who is good guy and bad guy in this fight.
DJ even use doesn't mean he is using strongest moves when we haven't even seen Hell Memories for one nor other DJ-related attacks at all as we only seen about 2, but doesn't mean that is all he can do. Now your pushing narrative on your end saying he was at his full power when that's a lie (RS is not his full power, nice try).
Last time a character said same thing it was Luffy vs Katakuri who was unsure on beating Katakuri later, but did in the end. Plus Sanji was fine in rest of the arc and your ignoring in clash he couldn't make it after another hit, but he kept using same leg again and again. Your ignoring that on your end and not being honest on true scope of the fight. Was Sanji struggling? Yes he was. Did he got hurt? Yes he did, but was he out for the count? No he wasn't. Your got put difference of someone truly out or not as if Sanji knew he couldn't win, he would stop fighting in the end, but he didn't and kept on until Vergo choose to leave in the fight in the end. Plus your doing it again in ignoring the fact he was nerf and saying 'he was at full power' when no he wasn't. He was nerf and yet he still brought his power against him and would have win as he continue to adjust his body.
Also while it is true Vergo wasn't serious, Sanji wasn't using his strongest moves either nor even put Armament Haki on his body during fight either. Again your ignoring factors on his side and pushing more on Vergo who still was having trouble doing his objective he was told. It was not easy on both sides, not one-sided mayhem.
Last time I hear of broken leading to defeat I look at Usopp and Harjudan fights and look who won in exchange? Was it Mr. 4 and Miss Groundhog day and Machvise? Nope, they lose in the end after breaking a man's skull (Usopp) and destroying one's body (Harjudan) which should have end the fight there, but it didn't. Oda with broken or hurt bones doesn't mean the end of the fight as shown with those fights, it wouldn't be no different with Vergo fight as while yes Sanji will struggle, but he would have been defeated in the end by Sanji. Just facts and how situation look. I give Vergo his dues, but he would lose in the end as like Rayleigh said, the tougher the fight, the stronger you get that wasn't just for Luffy, it's for anyone with serious fight. Same applies to Sanji and everyone else in back and forth fights like these.
Couldn't this have been continued in some other Vergo vs Sanji thread that's around....
Raid Suit Sanji owns.
Certain Sanji fans just argue emotion.
Vergo was above Sanji. If Sanji was able to pull a win it would be Extreme Diff. But we no he couldn't, because Oda never shown Sanji w/o his raid suit with battle feats to support such a claim.
Either way, the answer to this thread is obvious. So I guess ppl are just gonna discuss Sanji could have win in PH, which is done in many other threads....Sigh...
Of course, but it's shown you can get stronger on each arc, so you won't be same from before, trying to push Sanji have trouble even right now, doesn't fit logic and more you downplaying than being honest. Nothing to do fanboyism, just the truth.
I'm not saying Sanji is as strong as back then. Of course he will be a little bit stronger (and I'm saying a little bit because, honestly, he hasn't even had good fights to improve himself).
Vergo ran away as he couldn't finish the job in both ways on not beating Sanji or killing G5 and Tashigi and lol, that is poor example you use as that is not the case in Sanji vs Vergo fight.
Vergo ran away because he was contacted about Law reaching a place he musn't reach and Vergo having to speed out to stop him. This is an objective fact. The fact that you're arguing against that and claiming Vergo ran away "because he couldn't handle Sanji" is twisting the narrative in your favor even when the manga spelled it out otherwise for you.
His job of stopping Law had the utmost priority and he obviously intended to come back to murder everyone else after finishing Law of. That's the job he failed to: stopping Law.
DJ even use doesn't mean he is using strongest moves when we haven't even seen Hell Memories for one nor other DJ-related attacks at all as we only seen about 2, but doesn't mean that is all he can do.
So, tell me, what's different between Hell Memories and Diable Jambe? Diable Jambe covers his legs on fire to kick with them. Hell Memories covers his body on fire... and then just kicks with his legs on fire. It just looks cooler.
I explicitly said he may not have been at full power. I literally said you are right in saying he was not at 100% of his power. What I said is that neither did Vergo use even half of his arsenal of abilities and the only attack from Sanji that did any damage to him was the first kick, that was unexpected to Vergo and caught him off guard. He might have underestimated Sanji's strength before that kick, sure, but that's all. That was Sanji, nerfed? Sure, if you want, but using his "strongest form", against Vergo not using his strongest haki armament, for which he's praised.
Raid Suit is now Sanji's strongest form. He can still go Diable Jambe while wearing it, or Hell Memories if you want. This is a point I'm giving in Sanji's favor: He now has a weapon (the Raid Suit) that boosts his base stats. Why does that make you angry? Raid Suit is the only real reason from the facts that we have Sanji may now possibly stand a chance against Vergo.
Last time a character said same thing it was Luffy vs Katakuri who was unsure on beating Katakuri later, but did in the end. Plus Sanji was fine in rest of the arc and your ignoring in clash he couldn't make it after another hit, but he kept using same leg again and again. Your ignoring that on your end and not being honest on true scope of the fight. Was Sanji struggling? Yes he was. Did he got hurt? Yes he did, but was he out for the count? No he wasn't.
Your got put difference of someone truly out or not as if Sanji knew he couldn't win, he would stop fighting in the end, but he didn't and kept on until Vergo choose to leave in the fight in the end. Plus your doing it again in ignoring the fact he was nerf and saying 'he was at full power' when no he wasn't. He was nerf and yet he still brought his power against him and would have win as he continue to adjust his body.
Once again, I didn't say "he was at full power" and I'm starting to think you don't even care to really read what I tell you. Sanji was using his, back then, strongest attacks, despite not being at 100% of his power capacity, sure, but neither was Vergo, who didn't use his weapon nor the haki he's so well-known for, while Sanji already had a broken weapon (from a single hit). Sanji might have been regaining his base strength back, but the longer the fight lasted the more he was going to be defeated, just like Smoker, who's arguably stronger than Sanji, got his weapon broken in half and was utterly defeated by Vergo.
Also while it is true Vergo wasn't serious, Sanji wasn't using his strongest moves either nor even put Armament Haki on his body during fight either. Again your ignoring factors on his side and pushing more on Vergo who still was having trouble doing his objective he was told. It was not easy on both sides, not one-sided mayhem.
Sanji was up to a good start, but it instantly went downhill and he knew it. He not giving up and the fight going on doesn't mean he was necessarily going to win.
Last time I hear of broken leading to defeat I look at Usopp and Harjudan fights and look who won in exchange? Was it Mr. 4 and Miss Groundhog day and Machvise? Nope, they lose in the end after breaking a man's skull (Usopp) and destroying one's body (Harjudan) which should have end the fight there, but it didn't. Oda with broken or hurt bones doesn't mean the end of the fight as shown with those fights, it wouldn't be no different with Vergo fight as while yes Sanji will struggle, but he would have been defeated in the end by Sanji.
It's not the same. Usopp defeated Mr.4 with explosives and tactics. Sanji's only real weapon are his legs (and the RS, which I'll keep pointing out only because it somehow bothers you that he has a powerful suit). His leg cracked. Yes, even against Kuroobi Sanji had broken ribs, but never a broken leg. If his leg broke kick against kick (the only thing he's strong at) right off the bat, it could only go downhill, since his stability and strength were maimed from that point onwards. Facts.
Just facts and how situation look. I give Vergo his dues, but he would lose in the end as like Rayleigh said, the tougher the fight, the stronger you get that wasn't just for Luffy, it's for anyone with serious fight. Same applies to Sanji and everyone else in back and forth fights like these.
I left this quote for the end because of how silly it is:
We're going to use the "Sanji's a Main Character so he'll win" on a power thread? Really?
Also, It's just too biased how you keep going at "if the fight had been going on Sanji would have won 100% sure" while you diss Zoro casually taking out 1 out of 10 of Hawkin's lives. You dismiss a broken leg on a fighter that only knows how to kick yet somehow a couple nails on Zoro spells defeat.
Couldn't this have been continued in some other Vergo vs Sanji thread that's around....
Raid Suit Sanji owns.
Certain Sanji fans just argue emotion.
Vergo was above Sanji. If Sanji was able to pull a win it would be Extreme Diff. But we no he couldn't, because Oda never shown Sanji w/o his raid suit with battle feats to support such a claim.
Either way, the answer to this thread is obvious. So I guess ppl are just gonna discuss Sanji could have win in PH, which is done in many other threads....Sigh...
Sanji with Raid Suit has a chance. We should wait to see what his limits are exactly before we're sure, but I'm glad despite being sure he would now pwn Vergo you also agree that he didn't have a chance in PH.
I'm not saying Sanji is as strong as back then. Of course he will be a little bit stronger (and I'm saying a little bit because, honestly, he hasn't even had good fights to improve himself).
Vergo ran away because he was contacted about Law reaching a place he musn't reach and Vergo having to speed out to stop him. This is an objective fact. The fact that you're arguing against that and claiming Vergo ran away "because he couldn't handle Sanji" is twisting the narrative in your favor even when the manga spelled it out otherwise for you.
His job of stopping Law had the utmost priority and he obviously intended to come back to murder everyone else after finishing Law of. That's the job he failed to: stopping Law.
So, tell me, what's different between Hell Memories and Diable Jambe? Diable Jambe covers his legs on fire to kick with them. Hell Memories covers his body on fire... and then just kicks with his legs on fire. It just looks cooler.
I explicitly said he may not have been at full power. I literally said you are right in saying he was not at 100% of his power. What I said is that neither did Vergo use even half of his arsenal of abilities and the only attack from Sanji that did any damage to him was the first kick, that was unexpected to Vergo and caught him off guard. He might have underestimated Sanji's strength before that kick, sure, but that's all. That was Sanji, nerfed? Sure, if you want, but using his "strongest form", against Vergo not using his strongest haki armament, for which he's praised.
Raid Suit is now Sanji's strongest form. He can still go Diable Jambe while wearing it, or Hell Memories if you want. This is a point I'm giving in Sanji's favor: He now has a weapon (the Raid Suit) that boosts his base stats. Why does that make you angry? Raid Suit is the only real reason from the facts that we have Sanji may now possibly stand a chance against Vergo.
"Again and again" was only 1 or 2 panels more. The fight didn't last longer than that, so don't make feats up.
Once again, I didn't say "he was at full power" and I'm starting to think you don't even care to really read what I tell you. Sanji was using his, back then, strongest attacks, despite not being at 100% of his power capacity, sure, but neither was Vergo, who didn't use his weapon nor the haki he's so well-known for, while Sanji already had a broken weapon (from a single hit). Sanji might have been regaining his base strength back, but the longer the fight lasted the more he was going to be defeated, just like Smoker, who's arguably stronger than Sanji, got his weapon broken in half and was utterly defeated by Vergo.
Sanji was up to a good start, but it instantly went downhill and he knew it. He not giving up and the fight going on doesn't mean he was necessarily going to win.
It's not the same. Usopp defeated Mr.4 with explosives and tactics. Sanji's only real weapon are his legs (and the RS, which I'll keep pointing out only because it somehow bothers you that he has a powerful suit). His leg cracked. Yes, even against Kuroobi Sanji had broken ribs, but never a broken leg. If his leg broke kick against kick (the only thing he's strong at) right off the bat, it could only go downhill, since his stability and strength were maimed from that point onwards. Facts.
Same applies to vergo, mind you.
I left this quote for the end because of how silly it is:
We're going to use the "Sanji's a Main Character so he'll win" on a power thread? Really?
Also, It's just too biased how you keep going at "if the fight had been going on Sanji would have won 100% sure" while you diss Zoro casually taking out 1 out of 10 of Hawkin's lives. You dismiss a broken leg on a fighter that only knows how to kick yet somehow a couple nails on Zoro spells defeat.
This is just hopeless.
Sanji with Raid Suit has a chance. We should wait to see what his limits are exactly before we're sure, but I'm glad despite being sure he would now pwn Vergo you also agree that he didn't have a chance in PH.
He is strong and your showing biased in your tone if you think Sanji right now is losing to Vergo still or still have same trouble vibe as that isn't the case.
That happened yes, but one of the reasons as nothing stop him from getting Sanji and going after the others, but it shows in the end Sanji was too much for him and couldn't finish job he was set out to do prior, so no that isn't narrative changing, that is the truth while your forcing Vergo could have easily beaten him and yet he couldn't' do that right away when given his task prior.
You don't need to be rocket scientist to know even using a move doesn't mean your going all out and DJ is like Luffy's Gears where he is flexible on using it, but doesn't mean they going all out by your logic. Fact is he wasn't going all out nor doing more he did as stated nerf prior, so again it takes away your logic he was full power and your forcing narrative to say he was using his strongest moves when it wasn't in your past posts.
Thank you for admitting on that at least you were wrong on the full power scope. I acknowledge Vergo wasn't at his best as well, but neither was Sanji, so who would win in full healthy fight between them will still be Sanji, but it be High-Extreme Difficulty, not going to be easy win, but I am respecting both sides about it on what they have to show.
Also RS does help with certain abilities, but not his natural body power as again he isn't going to stop training and rely on RS as only source of fighting as that won't be the case as shown thus far in the war he fought without it as there is no dependcy. I am not upset at all, but why your annoyed by factor if someone say it's not the case given evidence how Sanji stated how he see it.
They fight would last longer and now your doing it again on narrative as your not Oda on saying how long you think fight would last.
Your saying right now by saying 'strongest attacks', which they weren't his full arsenal there and your pushing things to your mindset. Again you keep bringing Vergo holding back which I admit already yes he was, but so was Sanji on his own moveset and again you been debunk on broken leg so bringing back no matter how many times won't change argument about it if Sanji was fine after the fight and rest of the arc. Your not help your stance to convince me. Only annoyingly using same debunk argument again and again. Sanji fought with same leg despite damage and would have keep going in the end especially he gain the hang of his body back in the end.
Also Smoker lost due to giving Law his Heart back as Vergo commented he wasn't fighting like himself, so to how that fight go, it go differently as Smoker would have fought another style. You got read into fights more than just superficial stance your going for.
Nah, it was evenly match as neither was giving a inch and Vergo made choice to leave since he couldn't finish the objective he wanted to do in the end. Just how it is and it would have eventuality end in Sanji's favor if fight went on.
See this where you lost me if now your saying same broken bones doesn't apply when Usopp who fights with his brain got damage in skull and said he won in the end. It's clear your biased man, so no need to lie to me about situation if your saying this isn't same. Sanji fought to the end and his leg was fine to rest of the arc and Kuroobi fight just make your argument worse as he actually beat him in the end XD. Dude, Sanji would have beat Vergo the same as not saying it was easy fight, but it eventuality be his victory in the end. His weapons are fine if he choose to keep hitting with the same leg again and again, so stop pushing that they were about to break when he didn't shown having leg troubles in the arc later. Your only pushing narrative to your liking from how it looks in your post man. I don't mind if you dislike or even hate character, but not taking someone serious in forcing downplay like this at all.
Didn't see apply to Katakuri, so why Vergo? He at his level of strength already for his age while Sanji can still grow stronger, so again not reliable argument there.
Sounds like same stuff you use to say why Zoro would beat Hawkins on your end and again lives is his stick for his DF and he doesn't care. Compare to what Law did to actually beating Hawkins. Zoro's performance in Wano shows he wouldn't win in the end while Sanji has shown better performance he could last in his fight with Vergo. This is getting back and forth between us about difference here and you just pushing something on Zoro behind your argument while am just saying something about the fight. Not talking on S vs Z stuff in our talks.
Btw, you do know that despite it being a panel, it's supposed to happen fast and as a result of a kick, right? While Sanji only blocks. We can take time to appreciate it but it's supposed to happen in a instant. If for some reason you try to emulate it (and take into account Vergo's height for the pose since you can actually calculate how high he's lifted his leg and it isn't that much) in front of the mirror and fall to the ground, it'll be for two reasons mainly:
1- Oda draws weird fighting panels sometime, it's not new. It's his style.
2- That's a fast kick in movement, not a standing stance.
The height has no bearing on the the very obvious fact that the supposed right leg can't have that amount of tilt to his left because you have a pelvis in between that simply doesn't allow that range of motion. Is that really so hard to understand? I can make the same pose with the right leg (though not as flexible as I can't make a 90 degree bend like that) but can't do the fucking thing you think Vergo does because I have a pelvis and torso that even if I were made perfectly flexible the pelvis and the hip bones are rigid structures that under no circumstance can allow for such a stance. To argue otherwise makes you lierally insane. It's not a matter of perspective, the shot is close-up is from beneath Vergo, the tilt is going to be virtually the same and the tilt is not possible, not anatomically, nor is it mechanically viable as you need a counterbalance, center of mass is off so you would fall from that. Maybe you should try it in front of a mirror as your abiltiy to visualise this shit I suspect is very subpar. Not to mention, the inside of the foot is facing upwards and Oda made this perfectly clear. It's obvious that is the right foot
The height has no bearing on the the very obvious fact that the supposed right leg can't have that amount of tilt to his left because you have a pelvis in between that simply doesn't allow that range of motion. Is that really so hard to understand? I can make the same pose with the right leg (though not as flexible as I can't make a 90 degree bend like that) but can't do the fucking thing you think Vergo does because I have a pelvis and torso that even if I were made perfectly flexible the pelvis and the hip bones are rigid structures that under no circumstance can allow for such a stance. To argue otherwise makes you lierally insane. It's not a matter of perspective, the shot is close-up is from beneath Vergo, the tilt is going to be virtually the same and the tilt is not possible, not anatomically, nor is it mechanically viable as you need a counterbalance, center of mass is off so you would fall from that. Maybe you should try it in front of a mirror as your abiltiy to visualise this shit I suspect is very subpar. Not to mention, the inside of the foot is facing upwards and Oda made this perfectly clear. It's obvious that is the right foot
Keep resorting to insults when you fail to convince someone on something. This topic has been pointless since your previous answer being only name-calling.
The stance (which, once again, is not a stand, it's right in the middle of the motion of a kick) Vergo makes, kicking with his left, is way more plausible and natural than him rising his right leg. It's also the only thing that makes sense when looking at the previous and subsequent panels.
With you want to discuss how the drawing could be much better or be more physically accurate in terms of balance, then write to Oda and tell him to redraw the panel better.
I am not fanboy like that as I like all characters and stated Sanji in PH would win in High-Extreme state. Sanji right now would easily beat him like you said, but some like to bring back Vergo stuff thinking he still won't win against him which is stupid concept at this point on debunk stuff acting like characters won't get stronger than prior.
We all agree Sanji's gotten stronger since then. Every character gets stronger from arc to arc. Hell, Sanji didn't even train or had more than one real fight to push his limits as a fighter from Arabasta to Enies Lobby and he somehow still had grown strong enough to beat the crap out of Kalifa and Jyabura (even if he of course was too much of a gentleman to actually beat Kalifa, he still showed her he was easily superior to her).
The thing here is how much has he grown since then and just how much does the Raid Suit buff him (you might disagree with me on the fact that the RS buffs him but I don't think you have a problem with me believing it does as long as it benefits a positive opinion on Sanji's current prowess). I honestly don't think Sanji on Punk Hazard stood a chance against Vergo even if the fight lasted longer. I do think he may stand a chance now with the RS (+, yeah, how much has he grown during these arcs).
The problem here is that we still have no concrete showings of Sanji's exact current limits so I can't say for certain Sanji would beat Vergo (since, according to me, he was noticeably weaker than him three arcs ago), but I think he stands a chance and depending on who he fights this arc he might just proof by feats that he's objectively stronger than Vergo now.
Btw, I truly believe Sanji didn't beat P1, but don't misunderstand that as me saying Sanji can't beat P1. He was on a time limit back then until P1 had reinforcements so not enough time to beat someone that can take such a beating as P1. I even voted that Sanji's opponent this arc will be Queen on the other thread days ago.
Not insulting you or anything, but just saying how the way you acting seems like your more downplaying than actually being factual about what's going on the situation and agree to disagree on our points on situation as we have different views about it, but if you really mean your just saying as a way in respectful manner and not agenda to push Sanji haven't gotten stronger and is still weak, the sorry for misunderstanding as if you seen posts above they there are certain people like that who trying to force it like that, but if you weren't than sorry for that if you were.
Not insulting you or anything, but just saying how the way you acting seems like your more downplaying than actually being factual about what's going on the situation and agree to disagree on our points on situation as we have different views about it, but if you really mean your just saying as a way in respectful manner and not agenda to push Sanji haven't gotten stronger and is still weak, the sorry for misunderstanding as if you seen posts above they there are certain people like that who trying to force it like that, but if you weren't than sorry for that if you were.
It's all chill, man.
I'm honestly being objective in this debate. I'm not anti-Sanji or anything and as long as we keep it civil it's cool that we don't all agree about Sanji. That way we all have things to discuss about.
The topic of the thread is Sanji fighting Vergo WITH the raid suit. All your other discussions about who the character was based on or theories on manufacturing is off topic. If there's nothing more you have to add, reconsider your posts to avoid deletion.
Does Vergo has a pelvis or not? See how his supposed right foot stationed on the ground is tilting to the left. How is that possible? And where is his right thigh in all of this? and on top of that, why is there a gaping hole on the right side of his lab coat when in reality there should be a elg there ? Can you explain all of that?
If it is his left leg or right leg, then we should be able to tell just by wathcing the contour of the foot. See how the inside of the foot is more pronounced with a dimple and the outside being longer? We can tell it is his right leg just by seeing how the inside of the foot is on top, not the left leg.
Even if by some miracle Vergo actually can achieve that bodily configuration anatomically, you do realise it doesn't help your case? That position has no stability, so the mere fact that Vergo can leverage any power, in fact so much power that he actually breaks Sanji's fibula almost in half, that msut be the greatest troll move I have ever seen in my life and an amazing tribute to Vergo. Either way you sliced it Vergo trolled Sanji.
Vergo beating Sanji would be the equivalent of this guy breaking Samkor in a kicking match
Are you sure? Can you show me the intervirew where Vergo is mentioned then? The germa clones are based on the blueprints made for Vergo. The clones are of course pale shadows to the man himself, but Vergo was the genesis for Germa.
agree. Vergo is abnormally strong. Sanji lost the CoA fight against vergo, and the raid suit is not durable enough to close the power gap between him and vergo.
Here is the panel where Vergo easily cracks Sanji's leg bone. Remember, Sanji's strength comes from his legs, that is his specialty.
And this clearly shows Sanji saying to himself that if he kept fighting Vergo it wouldnt go well, implying Vergo was stronger. Sanji's legs were damaged from that fight. Vergo wasn't even going serious at all, we know this because Vergo was not using his Bamboo (his specialty since that is his nickname "Demon Bamboo") and because he didn't use Haki at all, much less went Full Body Haki like he did with Law.
Now you can be in denial and try to use the excuse that Sanji was damaged already by the damage Nami took while she was in his body. But taking that in account would still not be enough to say Sanji would've won because a fully healed Sanji would not be able to defeat a Full Body Haki Vergo with Haki Bamboo stick. He didnt even consider Sanji a threat as he left to go face off Law.
So many words, none of it disproves what I said. First paragraph is moot because as I said, Sanji was still moving and kicking like he never got his leg cracked.
He never said he'd lose, he said it wouldn't go well. One of the reasons why Yonkou don't fight each other or the Marines is because it wouldn't go well even if they win, they'd take too much damage. It implied nothing but that Vergo was very strong, and Sanji would likely take a lot of damage. I mean, Sanji wasn't serious either, he wasn't using his strongest attacks or even used haki.
I'm not being in denial, it's a manga fact, whereas you're just assuming Sanji would have lost because of a bamboo stick. To further prove my point about the bias against Sanji, manga itself shows us that Vergo had more important matters to deal with, just as Sanji did, hence both left the fight. Room was getting filled with poisonous gas, so of course Sanji would leave. Vergo's priority wasn't to take down Sanji, it was to protect the SAD manufacturing facility, which is why he went there. Had Sanji been there instead of Law to disrupt stuff, then Vergo would have still gone there even if he was fighting Luffy instead of Sanji.
There's been an update to our forum rules to broaden crediting/sourcing to all series news/announcement, etc. Please read HERE
Please all take some time to read the WELCOME THREAD, as we've made some updates, which is especially important for new threads on this forum. Thank you.
Oscars Contest 2023 is LIVE! Click HERE for a chance to win your Oscar!
It's back! MH presents a celebration of manga/anime culture; Mangahelpers Awards 2022 is NOW LIVE!
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
We can tell it is his right leg just by seeing how the inside of the foot is on top, not the left leg.
