Canon Vergo vs Sanji with Raid Suit

[albertwv]

So many words, none of it disproves what I said. First paragraph is moot because as I said, Sanji was still moving and kicking like he never got his leg cracked.

He never said he'd lose, he said it wouldn't go well. One of the reasons why Yonkou don't fight each other or the Marines is because it wouldn't go well even if they win, they'd take too much damage. It implied nothing but that Vergo was very strong, and Sanji would likely take a lot of damage. I mean, Sanji wasn't serious either, he wasn't using his strongest attacks or even used haki.


I'm not being in denial, it's a manga fact, whereas you're just assuming Sanji would have lost because of a bamboo stick. To further prove my point about the bias against Sanji, manga itself shows us that Vergo had more important matters to deal with, just as Sanji did, hence both left the fight. Room was getting filled with poisonous gas, so of course Sanji would leave. Vergo's priority wasn't to take down Sanji, it was to protect the SAD manufacturing facility, which is why he went there. Had Sanji been there instead of Law to disrupt stuff, then Vergo would have still gone there even if he was fighting Luffy instead of Sanji.

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His whole facial expression during the fight showed Sanji was being serious. You say Sanji was still moving and kicking like nothing happened, then why did Oda decide to include that panel of Sanji assuming thigs would have gone bad if they continued to fight. It clear states something. You don't see Vergo act hurt or weak after fighting Sanji and Law and Smoker. He wasn't fighting at 100% agaisnt Sanji. Sanji wouldnt stand a chance agaisnt 100% Vergo.
Yes I am assuming Sanji would have lost agaisnt Vergo if he had used his full body haki and bamboo, its so obvious. Its like Luffy vs Ulti. Ulti didnt lose to base Luffy but had Luffy used G4 as he was about to, then I would ASSUME/INFER that G4 Luffy would knock out Ulti right away. Did it happen? No but 99% sure it would happen if it had come down to that.

 

[Pirate Queen]

His whole facial expression during the fight showed Sanji was being serious. You say Sanji was still moving and kicking like nothing happened, then why did Oda decide to include that panel of Sanji assuming thigs would have gone bad if they continued to fight. It clear states something. You don't see Vergo act hurt or weak after fighting Sanji and Law and Smoker. He wasn't fighting at 100% agaisnt Sanji. Sanji wouldnt stand a chance agaisnt 100% Vergo.
Yes I am assuming Sanji would have lost agaisnt Vergo if he had used his full body haki and bamboo, its so obvious. Its like Luffy vs Ulti. Ulti didnt lose to base Luffy but had Luffy used G4 as he was about to, then I would ASSUME/INFER that G4 Luffy would knock out Ulti right away. Did it happen? No but 99% sure it would happen if it had come down to that.

Admission of someone being a tough fight has been used throughout the manga is pointless.

Luffy called this Blue ring Octopus Fishman tough... was that an admission that Luffy would have been defeated had they fought?

Zoro was concerned about Mr.1 was that an admission that he would lose?

It is a poor way of Oda just saying someone is powerful. If that is you basis of your entire arguement is badly done, honestly. Sanji was completely fine lol.

 

[Fox666]

So many words, none of it disproves what I said. First paragraph is moot because as I said, Sanji was still moving and kicking like he never got his leg cracked.

One Piece characters have superhuman endurance. That doesn't mean injuries are meaningless.

Whitebeard was impaled by Squardo, had a hole on his chest made by Akainu, and half of his face melted. And Whitebeard was still keeping up. However clearly the injuries had a great effect on him, and the reason he was killed by the Blackbeard Pirates.

Sanji had his legs fractured by Vergo, while nothing indicates Vergo had any lasting injury. If they continued to fight, Sanji would have more fractures to the point he wouldn't be able to move anymore. And that fight involving legs is Sanji's specialty.

I mean, Sanji wasn't serious either, he wasn't using his strongest attacks or even used haki.

Why do you think he didn't used Haki?

Vergo fractured his legs. Isn't that enough for anyone to get serious and use Haki?

 

[M3J]

His whole facial expression during the fight showed Sanji was being serious. You say Sanji was still moving and kicking like nothing happened, then why did Oda decide to include that panel of Sanji assuming thigs would have gone bad if they continued to fight. It clear states something. You don't see Vergo act hurt or weak after fighting Sanji and Law and Smoker. He wasn't fighting at 100% agaisnt Sanji. Sanji wouldnt stand a chance agaisnt 100% Vergo.
Yes I am assuming Sanji would have lost agaisnt Vergo if he had used his full body haki and bamboo, its so obvious. Its like Luffy vs Ulti. Ulti didnt lose to base Luffy but had Luffy used G4 as he was about to, then I would ASSUME/INFER that G4 Luffy would knock out Ulti right away. Did it happen? No but 99% sure it would happen if it had come down to that.

Not really, no. Sanji seems to have been angry at the kind of person Vergo was, he didn't look like he was being challenged until he blocked Vergo's kick.

To hype up Vergo as being tough. But again, the manga literally shows us this after that panel of Sanji admitting things would have gone bad, literally the only time he winced. It states that Sanji would have had a hard time fighting Vergo, which would have either resulted in taking tons of damage to win or losing.

Vergo took damage against Sanji, and Smoker likely threw the fight for Law. Sanji took tons of damage before the fight, which makes it even more amazing that he didn't keep on acting weak or hurt after wincing after the fight.

Sanji wasn't fighting at 100% either. It's also not obvious. With Luffy, you'd assume Luffy would have won had he gone in Gear 4 solely because he's the main character fighting a henchman. Reading the chapter, anyone who's not biased would not have inferred G4 Luff would have knocked out Ulti, especially when he had to resort to the gear.

One Piece characters have superhuman endurance. That doesn't mean injuries are meaningless.

Whitebeard was impaled by Squardo, had a hole on his chest made by Akainu, and half of his face melted. And Whitebeard was still keeping up. However clearly the injuries had a great effect on him, and the reason he was killed by the Blackbeard Pirates.

Sanji had his legs fractured by Vergo, while nothing indicates Vergo had any lasting injury. If they continued to fight, Sanji would have more fractures to the point he wouldn't be able to move anymore. And that fight involving legs is Sanji's specialty.


Why do you think he didn't used Haki?

Vergo fractured his legs. Isn't that enough for anyone to get serious and use Haki?

He was also sick and old, which took a toll on Whitebeard. Sanji however was still able to react like nothing happened, and if he really was injured, then he'd have shown signs somewhere. Zoro and I think Luffy have, so why wouldn't Sanji?

Yeah, if they had continued to fight then Sanji would have gotten more fractures/injuries, which is why he said what he did after the fight, that had it continued it'd have been bad. He could have won without rendering his legs immobile, but his legs wouldn't have been as strong or healthy.


Because there's no indication that he used haki. I think he used two legs as well to block/kick Vergo's kicks? He still only felt pain in one leg.

 

[Critical mindset]

agree. Vergo is abnormally strong. Sanji lost the CoA fight against vergo, and the raid suit is not durable enough to close the power gap between him and vergo.

The accelerators (same ones Yonjo have) have not been shown to be faster than Sanji's base speed, so the RS did not boost his offence against P1 being that Sanji used only his own speed to do damage. The Raid Suit boosted his defence, and first and foremost, the stealth aspect of it is what makes it dangerous. But the question is whether or not activating DJ would that give away his presence and thus nullify the invisibility? If so the gap between them widens significqntly. The impressive thing is Vergo was merely hurt by the fire, not by Sanji's leg power. Jabyra could take base hits from Sanji all day, but as soon as Sanji busted out DJ, Jabyra was down from two DJ attacks. This goes to show that Vergo is able to take base kicks and actually not be affected at all (as such why Smoker is so much stronger than Sanji, he actually did bloody up Vergo with his raw power, plus he is smoke so it directly counters Sanji's fire). A spinosaurus was screaming in agony from a base kick by Sanji so that is pretty funny actually. Oven has the toughest body of the Charlotte siblings, and he had his collarbone broken and got bruised up from a Sanji that was doing a hit-and-run attack, as such putting in less effort into the attack itself and still managing to hurt Oven that much. It's also very likely that Sanji used basic CoA against Vergo (the invisible haki) but Vergo uses hardening so we know if he does. He didn't. Sanji with full power, DJ and haki would do hefty amount of damage to people like Page ONe and the flying six, so Vergo is starting to look insanely impressive by comparison the more we get to see from the veteran people

 

[Fox666]

Yeah, if they had continued to fight then Sanji would have gotten more fractures/injuries, which is why he said what he did after the fight, that had it continued it'd have been bad. He could have won without rendering his legs immobile, but his legs wouldn't have been as strong or healthy.

What trump card Sanji has?

Vergo could keep up with his speed, use abilities like Sky Walk, and his kicks were stronger than Sanji's.

Besides Vergo also seems to have a much greater durability. He almost seemed like a statue or machine.

Because there's no indication that he used haki. I think he used two legs as well to block/kick Vergo's kicks? He still only felt pain in one leg.

If Sanji fractured his legs, I just assume he was using as much strength as possible. It's not like he was caught by surprise and didn't have time to use CoA.

But if it was true that Sanji didn't used CoA, then Vergo didn't either. And Vergo seems to have a much stronger CoA than Sanji. So in that scenario Vergo gained even more advantage?

 

[HereNThere]

From what we saw, Sanji was faster than Vergo. Before Sanji's leg was fractured, Sanji had outpaced him in a clash and kicked him through a wall. Nevermind that, despite the injury, Sanji was still going toe to toe in terms of speed.

Vergo has a lot of durability, true, but we have evidence that Sanji could harm Vergo with his kicks and force him back. Armament makes things a bit iffy, but Sanji had stronger techniques like Grill Shot and Hell's Memories as well. We can't say how they'd match up, but he had them.

Leg strength is also debatable seeing as how, outside of the fracture, the two were matching each other kick for kick during their clashes. They continued to match each other's kicks post injury as well. If the fracture came from these clashes, yeah, we could say Vergo had Sanji beat in leg strength, but the fracture came from a miscalculated block, something Sanji has gotten injured from for years now.

Now, could he have won? I can't say for sure, but Vergo wasn't monstrously overwhelming him like a lot of people seem to think. The two were basically evenly matched.

 

[albertwv]

Both Vergo and Sanji werent 100% serious/ Full Powered but what more could Sanji have done? Used Diable Jambe or Hells Memories? Would that be enough to take down Vergo in Full Body Haki with his Bamboo weapon. Vergo had cracked Sanji's leg and matched Sanji's speed and wasnt even serious about it. Vergo also took a counter shock from Law and various hits from Smoker but was still able to beat them up. Law won because his haki was greater than Vergo with his Mountain slash but in a physical fight Vergo could beat the shit out of Law and Smoker but yet Sanji can ultimately win against Vergo?

 

[HereNThere]

I'd say Sanji did about as well as Smoker did vs Vergo, and he's stronger since then.

I'd say Sanji was a bit better, but only because he was the only one who didn't get put on his back by Vergo.

Both keeping up with Vergo physicaly is a decent feat for that point in the story. Hell, even Law, before he one shot him, couldn't keep up too well.

I'm terms of leveling at that point, I'd say Sanji falls in between Smoker and PH Law.

 

[Shasha23]

Without Raid Suit its questionable who would win but with Raid Suit Sanji for me beats Vergo no contest.
I would say he wouldnt OHKO him since Vergo was kinda a tank but he would beat him pretty easily without taking damage since the Raid Suit is such a power up for Sanji, it takes him from strength of being around notable executive to being Yonko Commander lvl and there is no way Vergo would hang with such strength, anyway Sanji takes this extreme low diff.

 

[Fox666]

Vergo has a lot of durability, true, but we have evidence that Sanji could harm Vergo with his kicks and force him back. Armament makes things a bit iffy, but Sanji had stronger techniques like Grill Shot and Hell's Memories as well. We can't say how they'd match up, but he had them.

Sanji hit Vergo by surprise, and even so he only hurt his chin a bit.

Would Sanji still be standing if it was the other way around? From what we have seen, Vergo landed some devastating hits on Law and Smoker.

 

[M3J]

What trump card Sanji has?

Vergo could keep up with his speed, use abilities like Sky Walk, and his kicks were stronger than Sanji's.

Besides Vergo also seems to have a much greater durability. He almost seemed like a statue or machine.


If Sanji fractured his legs, I just assume he was using as much strength as possible. It's not like he was caught by surprise and didn't have time to use CoA.

But if it was true that Sanji didn't used CoA, then Vergo didn't either. And Vergo seems to have a much stronger CoA than Sanji. So in that scenario Vergo gained even more advantage?

Vergo couldn't really as he kept getting kicked. Again, most Straw Hats often fight opponents who can keep up with them, whether it's Katakuri or Bon Clay, and still win. This is not an indication of whether Vergo would beat Sanji or not.

Very questionable. Sanji was still fighting and still moving despite taking damage when Nami was in his body and after suffering a fracture against Vergo. Vergo also fractured his one leg once, based on Sanji's reaction, and it still didn't stop Sanji from blocking and kicking.

But how do you know he didn't? It is possible to assume Vergo used haki just based on the way he fractured Sanji's leg.

From what we saw, Sanji was faster than Vergo. Before Sanji's leg was fractured, Sanji had outpaced him in a clash and kicked him through a wall. Nevermind that, despite the injury, Sanji was still going toe to toe in terms of speed.

Vergo has a lot of durability, true, but we have evidence that Sanji could harm Vergo with his kicks and force him back. Armament makes things a bit iffy, but Sanji had stronger techniques like Grill Shot and Hell's Memories as well. We can't say how they'd match up, but he had them.

Leg strength is also debatable seeing as how, outside of the fracture, the two were matching each other kick for kick during their clashes. They continued to match each other's kicks post injury as well. If the fracture came from these clashes, yeah, we could say Vergo had Sanji beat in leg strength, but the fracture came from a miscalculated block, something Sanji has gotten injured from for years now.

Now, could he have won? I can't say for sure, but Vergo wasn't monstrously overwhelming him like a lot of people seem to think. The two were basically evenly matched.

Finally, some sense.

 

[Shasha23]

Now, could he have won? I can't say for sure, but Vergo wasn't monstrously overwhelming him like a lot of people seem to think. The two were basically evenly matched.

Wait are you talking about base Sanji or Raid Suit Sanji?
Sure enough base Sanji vs Vergo is hard to call but RS Sanji should be able to take Vergo pretty easily

 

[Fox666]

But how do you know he didn't? It is possible to assume Vergo used haki just based on the way he fractured Sanji's leg.

So Sanji did not use Haki, but Vergo did?

 

[HereNThere]

Sanji hit Vergo by surprise, and even so he only hurt his chin a bit.

Would Sanji still be standing if it was the other way around? From what we have seen, Vergo landed some devastating hits on Law and Smoker.

First hit was one of surprise, sure. With the second hit, however, the two were in the middle of a back and forth and Sanji tagged him directly.

I don't see why not. It's not like Sanji's a slouch when it comes to durability. And it's not like he hasn't walked away after a win with broken bones before. Nevermind that both Law and Smoker were able to walk away after everything was said and done.

 

[M3J]

So Sanji did not use Haki, but Vergo did?

I don't know about the first block attempt (possible as Sanji's leg was fractured), but it doesn't look like Vergo did after that given Sanji didn't seem to get any more fractures or was shown to be in pain or more pain.

Either way, my stance is that I have no reason to believe Sanji would lose to Vergo but also, I acknowledge that he could lose depending on how good Vergo's CoA is.

 

[King Moe]

I don't know about the first block attempt (possible as Sanji's leg was fractured), but it doesn't look like Vergo did after that given Sanji didn't seem to get any more fractures or was shown to be in pain or more pain.

Either way, my stance is that I have no reason to believe Sanji would lose to Vergo but also, I acknowledge that he could lose depending on how good Vergo's CoA is.

He was struggling beating Nerf Sanji who still could damage him. Facing Sanji right now especially latest chapter, Sanji would easily destroy him at this point.

 

[Crimson Ice]

This whole thread is hilarious. Current Sanji is stomping Vergo.

 

[Nie Li]

I don't know about the first block attempt (possible as Sanji's leg was fractured), but it doesn't look like Vergo did after that given Sanji didn't seem to get any more fractures or was shown to be in pain or more pain.

Either way, my stance is that I have no reason to believe Sanji would lose to Vergo but also, I acknowledge that he could lose depending on how good Vergo's CoA is.

But, after Sanji's leg fracture in the manga there was only a single more page of combat before Vergo had to chase Law and abandon the fight, and during that page and especially right after, Sanji shows high pain and mentions himself how the fight looked grim for himself.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

He was struggling beating Nerf Sanji who still could damage him. Facing Sanji right now especially latest chapter, Sanji would easily destroy him at this point.

struggling? Vergo destroyed sanji legs in one clash. Raid suit gives durability boos for sanji, but i'm still inclined for vergo wins. Vergo is just too tough as a fighter. If sanji can improve his CoA, then maybe he can get a draw or extreme diff win