Discussion What do you think of Berserk then and now?

[xi0]

I'd almost rather think he was procrastinating, than think that three years of constant work on one side-story can't produce more than what we've seen.


So, I should blame the breaking down of the interstice for the overuse of cartoony art, and misdirection of story? (Sorry if I'm sounding hostile, not my intent)

Sadly I feel they're actually aiming for a younger demographic at this point. Thus the degenerating shonen tendencies.


Middle of the Conviction arc, she's pleasuring herself to the thought of torture, after having found satisfaction burning people alive her whole life. Within a few chapters of joining Guts, (a week or two later?) she's risking her life to care for Casca. I can understand changing her, but there wasn't much transition, or time for developing a complete change of character.

I don't know if procrastination has anything to do with it. It's easy to assume it does, but I can't be sure.

Again, those are your opinions. Cartoony art is mostly limited to Puck and Isidro. The art has never been better. You can't expect a decently long series, much less one that has ran for 20+ years to maintain an art style. Every series goes through these changes. Misdirection of the plot?.......I'm not sure how to respond to that. The one who only knows the true direction of the plot is Miura, and as readers, we are allowed to critique it afterwards. I'm not sure what subplot you think he's wasting time on.

I can't disagree about what demo they're aiming for. The group that surrounds Guts now has done a lot to take away some of the dark atmosphere from the story for sure, but that could be by design. Only Miura knows. Remember, the series is still in a Seinen publication. "Shonen tendencies" is sort of a broad term, so not sure what you mean by it. People mistake comedic relief and goofy art for "shounen" sometimes, which couldn't be more wrong. Nothing about Berserk screams shounen to me.

IIRC there was a timeskip involved during Farnese's pursuit of Guts and then joining him thereafter. I don't know, I don't remember specifics.

 

[York]

I don't know if procrastination has anything to do with it. It's easy to assume it does, but I can't be sure.

Again, those are your opinions. Cartoony art is mostly limited to Puck and Isidro. The art has never been better. You can't expect a decently long series, much less one that has ran for 20+ years to maintain an art style. Every series goes through these changes.

Art style changing/improving over time I have no problem with. Art style deteriorating for the sake of comic relief? Yeah, I've never liked that in a serious series. Puck's little more than a doodle 90% of the time, and it's in every kind of scene.
Fighting hordes of Demons? Guts and Serpico are fighting to the death? Better throw in Yoda jokes. Not like I should be taking these moments seriously.

Misdirection of the plot?.......I'm not sure how to respond to that. The one who only knows the true direction of the plot is Miura, and as readers, we are allowed to critique it afterwards. I'm not sure what subplot you think he's wasting time on.

Afterwards? I can't critique a plot twenty years into the story?
As for what subplots, there's been several. The elf village, the troll village, this whole pirate deal on this new island. Parts were too drawn out for what they needed to establish. If there's several chapters of fighting when it's obvious no main character's in danger, along with little or no story progression, it can be considered filler.
For reference, the Conviction arc was something I liked. An established direction, several well written characters and plot points that would impact the main story. Also several really well done villains. (but why Mozgus started shouting attack names like a Naruto villain is beyond me)

I can't disagree about what demo they're aiming for. The group that surrounds Guts now has done a lot to take away some of the dark atmosphere from the story for sure, but that could be by design. Only Miura knows. Remember, the series is still in a Seinen publication. "Shonen tendencies" is sort of a broad term, so not sure what you mean by it. People mistake comedic relief and goofy art for "shounen" sometimes, which couldn't be more wrong. Nothing about Berserk screams shounen to me.

I tend to associate unrealistic reactions and unnecessary over-the-top humor with generic shonens.
And the feel of battle has changed. Less realism, more flash in exchange for less substance. Overpowered magic. Everyone standing on the sideline cause Guts is the only one who can fight with his new power. Makes me think of something out of Dbz. (maybe not that bad, but still..)

Also, lost romance aspects for a few random crushes. People have fricking shipped Guts and Schierke. lol

IIRC there was a timeskip involved during Farnese's pursuit of Guts and then joining him thereafter. I don't know, I don't remember specifics.

Doesn't really help to say that there was development and transition, but it was offscreen.

 

[Roflkopt3r]

Now really what is my point is not necessarily the fact whether or not the story is prolongued or whatever. It's just the direction all of this is taking... It became too soft, too shounenlike, too uninspired.

The first arc where i really had the feeling of "this is more a filler than anything else" was the "fairy land" arc, the connector of Black Swordsman Arc in Volume 14. The enemy and "allies" were kinda arbitrary, unrelated to the main story, the story does not really progress anywhere.

Yet it was so different from the current Fantasia arc. It was all about Gattsu, it was dark (won't ever forget how Gattsu throws himself into the fire and extinguishes it with blood and corpses...), there was no magic involved exept some fairy dust. There were painful moments for everyone and Gattsu did not know what to do and where to go. He was chasing this elf girl who was such a tragic character. Tragedy all over, no way to "win" this.
It was just GAR and pain.

It felt approximately 999²³x cooler than Fantasia arc.

No, not every part of the series has to be bad for Gattsu, but the current one is just too good. There is no conflict, no developement for Gattsu, just showing off embarrassingly designed Batman Gattsu slashing at random monsters and uninteresting spear carriers getting screentime beeing Shounen.

It became dull and boring and overdone

What I loved so much about Berserk, was how human it was. Searching for a purpose, and even when finding one it is lost so easily. Tragedy at every corner. Gattsu beeing so unlike those perfect Shounen protagonists, beeing swayed by his moods, making mistakes, beeing cruel, suffering so much.
That's all gone...

One of my most favorite scenes ever: When Gattsu assassinates General Julius at the castle after Griffith told him so, and Gattsu accidentially kills Julius' son. The way Gattsu has this nightmare afterwards and stands there, beaten both physically and mentally: http://i39.mangareader.net/berserk/6/berserk-24968.jpg

 

[mrsticky005]

Then: The Golden Arc, with all the violence that went along with it.

Now: The current journey Guts is on to try to bring Casca to safety and bring her memory back.


I've heard a lot about readers who don't like the current direction of Berserk, that loved what it used to be. Personally, I actually like it better now, because it's just interesting to me to see how Guts work with other people, and it has more of a Final Fantasy feel to it due to the teamwork (especially concerning Schierke.)

However I can't deny that the Berserk of old used to be a lot more surprising.

What do you guys think?

Then: Great. Griffith's rise to power and fall is interesting.

Now: Good and then going down hill into lameness. I hate Schierke. This current arc with the Mermaids is REALLY boring. I don't even care about Guts anymore and everyone else just seems to be there. Then these fish monsters they are fighting. Hurry up and die already so Guts
can travel to the magical elf land and get rid of Caska who Then had the potential to be an interesting character and NOW is only really good
for being a hot naked retard.

I liked the arc with the moth children people
I liked the "Let's Shit on the Roman Catholic Church" arc. Mozgus was cool and had epic expressions.
I liked the Hawk of the Millenium Arc and the Kushuan Empire and all that jazz and the new Band of the Hawk is cool.
I liked Farnese having to go get a boat from her rich parents and then thinking that she'll have to leave the group.
Made me actually start to give a crap about her again when before Schierke was making her into her lame fangroup. Ugh.
I like Farnese's fiance. I expected him to be a jerk but he's cool. However it's only too bad he got introduced in this lame sauce arc.
Fantasia Arc is absolute suckage. The only thing remotely interesting of it is the pirate dude looking like a pirate.

 

[xi0]

I liked the "Let's Shit on the Roman Catholic Church" arc. Mozgus was cool and had epic expressions.

You're entitled to you opinions, but I thought I'd just clarify that the Church, or Holy See in Berserk isn't the Roman Catholic Church...obviously similar, but not the same. Just like the Kushans aren't really Kushans, and Midland isn't Medieval Europe.

 

[Josef]

^^ It is based on that, but Miura can not use the same names and stuff, another story with the Holy See in Berserk would really be good, just to remind of some of the old days, I can not say if those were better, since this arc is going slow with the breaks, back then I read the church arc in one go, because it was a complete story and it was epic.

 

[mrsticky005]

You're entitled to you opinions, but I thought I'd just clarify that the Church, or Holy See in Berserk isn't the Roman Catholic Church...obviously similar, but not the same. Just like the Kushans aren't really Kushans, and Midland isn't Medieval Europe.

Yes, thank you. I realized that. -_- But it's pretty obvious that it's based off of the Roman Catholic Church.
Hell it's even called the Vatican in the story too.

 

[Avid]

Berserk is easily the most well-composed story I've ever read whether it be manga, comic, or novel. In every aspect of itself it is a model of excellence. The characters, the art, the tone, and the storytelling are all unmatched. The Golden Age was such a perfect follow-up to the prologue that introduced Guts, and it masterfully crafted his history and the character dynamics. Establishing both him and Griffith as my two favorite characters. The sentimentality Guts and Griffith expressed was always so thoughtful and moving, and I think having so much of that aspect so concentrated in that part of the story is why it is the best part so far. It's not to say that the later parts aren't amazing. They have been perfect to follow-up all that has happened and I love every step they've taken. Berserk has taken my breath away at so many points. I could never say I prefer any of the major arcs over another, but that they are all dependent on each other to be as great as they have been.

The criticisms about what combat has become and the lack of focus on Guts are ones that I can't really agree with. In The Golden Age Guts was becoming a man, but after the events of the Eclipse his priorities have been forced to focus on such serious matters perpetually that his growth has slowed down dramatically. It's still there, and he still has some huge choices to face. I believe we're in the third act of the five act play, and it isn't a surprise things could feel slower here. I don't mind though. All the things being setup are fascinating and represent so much to come for the story. The combat's evolution alongside the development of the supernatural aspects has been totally great, and we've had a logical growth in ability since then. Guts Berserk Armor being a big part. Someone said Apostles have become canon-fodder, but I don't see how they could think that when we've hardly seen Guts fight any since The Golden Age arc. Almost all they've fought since were spawns of some sort of an Apostle. He's only had two one-on-one fights with Apostles since The Golden Age arc. The moth-like apostle and Grunbeld. He also fought Ganishka, but all he really did was help Zodd make one attack that didn't even kill him.

Isidro is basically Yahiko from Kenshin, but I think he could play a surprising role in relation to Guts, and I can appreciate that. Puck has become a very silly character, but I think of it as him aclimatizing to what surrounds their lives. I think Farnesse represents a big theme in the story and I've found her interesting. Serpico's detachment from the group can be bothersome, but otherwise I love him. I feel like Casca's current state has always been a constant reminder of what's happened to them, and how it still continues. I think its provided a great presence to the tone of the plot, but then again I genuinely feel sad with every scene she's in since she became this way.

 

[jakensama]

Maybe it is the current exceptionally slow rate of release, but it just seems a lot less focused and not as interesting. I still enjoy it immensely, but it doesn't move me like it used to.

 

[Googlez_kun]

As someone who just Berserk in one go without any long breaks I have to say that I feel there is a difference in quality.
Everything up until the Eclipse was great. Very tight storytelling and characters that wrote themselves. Miura didn't have to do anything. It feels like it was all there and he just needed to draw it. No, more like, he didn't need to think of what to draw, because the characters did the thinking. It was all to perfect. The eclipse was a finale that couldn't have been done better.
After that I was still invested in the characters. Obviously! My heart was crushed, so I followed Guts' adventure. In the beginning it all felt just as natural as before. His character unfolded before my eyes and the story developed well. The fairy children part was too long, but still worked well with the series for me. Then came the Rebirth Arc and it didn't really click with me. I get that it was an imitation of the Eclipse, but to me it was as much as that: a copy. Especially because the climax wasn't as intense. Actually I had the feeling it wasn't even there really. But maybe that's just me. After that, there were some parts I liked, some not so much. I enjoyed Farnese's character development (until her LSD-magic trips) and Schiercke works well with Guts, I think. Not much comes to mind, but that could be because I'm tired. Anyhow, in general things didn't feel as sharp to me. Plots and fights that dragged on for no good reason. At last we have the Mermaid Arc, which was horrible.
Griffith's journey is a little more interesting in the last volumes, simply because it's straight to the point and doesn't have any annoying stupid dumb ass jokes from Puck. Jesus Christ most of what is said by Puck and Isodro is so unnecessary, I just skip it. Guts is still Guts, but other characters take too much of his spotlight.

Summa summarum, I used to enjoy Berserk more. Not only because of the change in tone (just personal taste), but also because the writing used to be more precise and tight and the pace was better.
(Sorry, I don't have the power to proofread this post.)

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

I didn't know such a thread existed. I feel the same here.Berserk was much more intense back in the days, during the golden age, the eclipse and the children arc. From that point onward everything went downhill. I just wanna add that Miura seems to be more focused on the art rather the actual story. To me while the art during the golden age wasn't top notch, it served its purpose. Some shots had lots of feel and you could feel the pain and the agony of the characters. Now rather than just being a way to portray the characters and convey their feelings it has become one of Miura's primary concerns while writing Berserk. It's beautiful but what's the point?It's like gazing at an exceptionally good drawing or even a hyper-realistic drawing, but there's no real value other than the aesthetical one. I might be exaggerating a bit but that's how I feel about it.
One more thing, Guts was such a badass back then, he still is but to a lesser degree. Back then every fight had a meaning and you could feel that Guts was pushing his limits to take down his foes, my favorite fight will always be the one against Rosine, because of how messed up he ended up being from that fight. Ever since Schierke was introduced, and especially since he got the berserker armor it felt like Guts became somehow weaker, he's relying more on magic and other stuff rather than raw strength. The Berserker armor in particular is supposed to allow him to fight apostles more efficiently, but most of the time it makes him go berserk, and he almost killed his friends because of that. And on the long run it is making him weaker, he's losing his eyesight and if he continues to wear it he'll end up dead like its previous owner. Plus you don't actually feel the intensity of the fights because Guts face is hidden most of the time, and to me it's a huge loss because you can't see his expressions.
The bad humour from Puck and Isidro was somehow bearable...until the sea god arc, and the pirates. Seriously it really became painful, and to top it all why does the sea god look like Malboro from the FF series? What's up with that lol?
Well this is how I feel about this question, I'm pretty sure that someone might have already pointed these out, but I'm too lazy to read the whole thread

 

[FetherMan]

The beginning of the series was definitely groundbreaking with a simple plot structure that's been building onto itself for the past 20 plus years now. As of right now, there isn't much to say versus then and now, because of the chapter releases, but Miura's commitment to continue on with a series this long says a lot.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

The beginning of the series was definitely groundbreaking with a simple plot structure that's been building onto itself for the past 20 plus years now. As of right now, there isn't much to say versus then and now, because of the chapter releases, but Miura's commitment to continue on with a series this long says a lot.

To me the heart of Berserk is the golden age.What I miss more than anything else is the interaction between the characters something that we didn't see a lot this past years.And I'm not sure if Miura's commitment comes from him wanting the finish the series as much as trying to make it profitable in the long run.I can imagine that working on a series for more than 20 years can make a person really tired, her commitment won't be the same as in the beginning, and if he really wanted to finish the series he would have done so, by working really hard for these past couple of years. He must think that since the story is like 70% complete it might be better to slow down the pace and milk it as much as possible, that's why a project like the movies took place in the first place. That's my opinion.

 

[Darklord#10]

PEAK FICTION