Round of 16 Natsu vs Larcade

[M3J]

That's pretty self-absorbed and arrogant you know, for you to regard your own personal opinion as fact and to slander anyone who disagrees with that opinion as biased.



And speaking of bias...


¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Where did I say my personal opinion is fact and slandered anyone who disagreed is biased? I mean, I like Jean Grey but I'm quite annoyed with him voting against Natsu just because he dislikes Natsu. I like Laxus, but I'd be peeved if someone voted for him just because they liked him even if he was most likely gonna lose.


Yeah, so? I didn't feel the need to explain why I thought Gildarts will win. I can if it'll make you feel better, but I can also quote the members that I agree with that explained it. But if you're still concerned, I'll explain it in that thread if you ask me to. up:

You can love Natsu and genuinely believe he's stronger than Larcade. I agree that it would be a bit of a stretch to put Natsu ahead of August, Zeref, or Acnologia.

How is that any better than hating Natsu and genuinely believing he'd lose to Larcade?


But your post above my previous one is making me wanna switch to Natsu if he can do that attack quickly, and Larcade has no way to dodge or prevent the attack like Zeref, Acnologia, or Serena would. Assuming Acnologia can eat that kind of magic?

 

[Boomburst]

Where did I say my personal opinion is fact and slandered anyone who disagreed is biased? I mean, I like Jean Grey but I'm quite annoyed with him voting against Natsu just because he dislikes Natsu. I like Laxus, but I'd be peeved if someone voted for him just because they liked him even if he was most likely gonna lose.

You said you can tell bias just from people's arguments and that anyone who'd vote Natsu over Acnologia, August, or Zeref is biased. If you are calling people biased simply because you disagree with their arguments or because they regard a character's strength differently than you, then is my accusation not valid?

I never claimed you were in support of behavior like Jean Grey's. My main contention is with your claim of hypocrisy from Natsu fans, to which I find no evidence to support at all.

Yeah, so? I didn't feel the need to explain why I thought Gildarts will win. I can if it'll make you feel better, but I can also quote the members that I agree with that explained it. But if you're still concerned, I'll explain it in that thread if you ask me to. up:

The statement I quoted literally is an explanation as to why you voted for Gildarts. It literally reads, " I like Gildarts more so I'm voting for Gildarts". Don't understand why you would decide to say this if it was untrue.

 

[Holt]

You know, I feel Zeref took that DF attack because he was already using FH. I mean, zeref had the option to at least prepare a counter spell or attempt to dodge but he simply took the attack. That's by the way though. Anyway, Larcade is a pretty bad match up for anyone. There are roughly 5 or so characters I would say can best him in a fight becasue in addition to his Hax, he has pretty ridiculous strength and durability. Well he is an interesting matchup for pretty much anyone. My stance still remains the same though. I believe Natsu needs DF to beat Larcade but Larcade's spells should be able to work at any point for him. If Natsu opts to go straight to combat instead of first trying to use DF, larcade has shown feats to indicate that he can keep up and possibly even best Base Natsu, actually I'd rank him over base Natsu in terms of combat ability considering sting need a DF dual mode to defeat Larcade. Combine that with RIP and it's likely Natsu won't even get the chance to go DF. Larcade was also shown attacking sting while using Hunger so even while Natsu is trying to resist RIP, Larcade can still use attacks on him apparently. Honestly, it just seems pretty bad for Natsu with this matchup

 

[Seven777]

If Natsu throws demolition fist, anyone in a straight line front of him is going down. I think demolition fist can cover the AoE of Purgatory DS's attack.

Spoiler: Purgatory DS's attack

Spoiler: DF Demolition Fist

So Natsu beats Larcade by that large a margin to you? Not for me.

Natsu, like God Serena is probably gonna have to tank attacks from 3 spriggans while also under the influence of Larcade's hax, the hax alone makes Natsus ability to one shot or attack at all questionable. Can't imagine him beating Larcade and even one other spriggan

 

[LaGOAT]

Lol people arent voting for natsu solely because hes natsu. Thats a fact, people will proudly say it.. Give me a break lol people are so biased its a joke. "Great debate"

ya because every1 here that are voting for natsu doesnt believe he is stronger. people are bias with everything including their fav character

I haven't seen anyone say they're voting for Natsu because he's Natsu. Like I'm pretty sure nobody voting for Natsu is voting because they really dislike Larcade. I can name at least one person who says they won't vote for Natsu despite the fact they believe he's stronger.



I just can't see him taking down Gajeel, Erza, Gray, or Jellal. Laxus and Gildarts maybe, but that's really only because pleasure is a gag. If their lives were on the line, I'm pretty sure they could resist their orgasm long enough to throw an attack to knock him out.

except that when he lost he lost because of a disadvantage sting can eat his attacks and because he lost by multiple help from other people. he easily beat kagura with phsycial strength without using magic. pleasure wasnt a gag it affect zeref. hence why zeref told him to stop it because he is affecting his allies. the only gag was gildartz with sparkly eyes

 

[Axiomus]

So Natsu beats Larcade by that large a margin to you? Not for me.

Natsu, like God Serena is probably gonna have to tank attacks from 3 spriggans while also under the influence of Larcade's hax, the hax alone makes Natsus ability to one shot or attack at all questionable. Can't imagine him beating Larcade and even one other spriggan

This is what it takes to beat Larcade. Demolition Fist would be overkill. Natsu doesn't need to hit Larcade with an attack that would erase Zeref. He just need to use the same power it would take for Sting to take out Larcade. He can arguably achieve this with base mode's punches.

Spoiler: Attack necessary to kill Larcade

The hard part is making sure they all line up for him to attack, and maybe with the Spriggans varied power-set this would be harder to pull off. However, for the purposes of this tournament, he only needs to knock out Larcade anyways. I don't think there's any doubt that he can do that.

How is that any better than hating Natsu and genuinely believing he'd lose to Larcade?


But your post above my previous one is making me wanna switch to Natsu if he can do that attack quickly, and Larcade has no way to dodge or prevent the attack like Zeref, Acnologia, or Serena would. Assuming Acnologia can eat that kind of magic?

If you genuinely believe he would lose to Larcade, that's one thing. I have no problem with that. There are people who think Natsu is actually stronger, but vote against him anyways. That's the issue here.

There should be no issue for Acnologia eating the attack. God Serena might be a different story. I don't believe that slayers can eat attacks that vastly overwhelms them. At least, not for stuff like punches. It's the same reason I wouldn't have Natsu being able to eat August's melt nukes.

 

[M3J]

You said you can tell bias just from people's arguments and that anyone who'd vote Natsu over Acnologia, August, or Zeref is biased. If you are calling people biased simply because you disagree with their arguments or because they regard a character's strength differently than you, then is my accusation not valid?

I never claimed you were in support of behavior like Jean Grey's. My main contention is with your claim of hypocrisy from Natsu fans, to which I find no evidence to support at all.



The statement I quoted literally is an explanation as to why you voted for Gildarts. It literally reads, " I like Gildarts more so I'm voting for Gildarts". Don't understand why you would decide to say this if it was untrue.

I didn't mean ME, I meant anyone, whether you, me, Jean Grey, or @Gallon.

And yes, they would be biased if they voted for Natsu over Acnologia, August, or Zeref until/unless Natsu shows feats or possibility that allows him to win. It's like saying Gray would match full END in power when he could only manage to be equal to partial END. It's biased and makes no sense until Gray shows that he can match full END. I'm calling people biased because they're voting for a character they like even if he has no feat to indicate he could win. Would you call me a Laxus hater if I facepalmed at someone who likes Laxus voting for him over Acnologia or Zeref? Or would you agree with me?

Neither have I so far, but I haven't read like, 95% of the posts here mainly because I feel out of element in most FT discussions. But I'm willing to bet at least one or two have voted for Natsu out of fanboy reasons. Mainly because I'm still jaded and salty about the Naruto tourney few years ago, which in turn is affecting my view of this.


And I still stand by my reply to yours.

--- Double Post Merged, May 14, 2017, Original Post Date: May 14, 2017 ---

This is what it takes to beat Larcade. Demolition Fist would be overkill. Natsu doesn't need to hit Larcade with an attack that would erase Zeref. He just need to use the same power it would take for Sting to take out Larcade. He can arguably achieve this with base mode's punches. This is true for any of the other Spriggans tbh.

Spoiler: Attack necessary to kill Larcade

--- Double Post Merged, May 14, 2017, Original Post Date: May 14, 2017 ---

If you genuinely believe he would lose to Larcade, that's one thing. I have no problem with that. There are people who think Natsu is actually stronger, but vote against him anyways. That's the issue here.

There should be no issue for Acnologia eating the attack. God Serena might be a different story. I don't believe that slayers can eat attacks that vastly overwhelms them. At least, not for stuff like punches. It's the same reason I wouldn't have Natsu being able to eat August's melt nukes.

Does Jean Grey really think Natsu is stronger than Larcade? I didn't read his post, and I don't want to. <_<
But to be honest, Jean Grey's salt comes from how Natsu's written, especially with plotsu hax.

I'm not sure if Acnologia can eat dragon slaying magic.

 

[Axiomus]

Does Jean Grey really think Natsu is stronger than Larcade? I didn't read his post, and I don't want to. <_<
But to be honest, Jean Grey's salt comes from how Natsu's written, especially with plotsu hax.

I'm not sure if Acnologia can eat dragon slaying magic.

Yes. To be clear, I have no issue with people voting for Larcade if that's who they genuinely believe is stronger.

All the other dragon slayers can eat dragon slaying magic. Acnologia's eating abilities is actually a step further, as he can eat all types of magic.

 

[M3J]

But Acnologia is also a dragon, hence my curiosity.

 

[Axiomus]

except that when he lost he lost because of a disadvantage sting can eat his attacks and because he lost by multiple help from other people. he easily beat kagura with phsycial strength without using magic. pleasure wasnt a gag it affect zeref. hence why zeref told him to stop it because he is affecting his allies. the only gag was gildartz with sparkly eyes

But Erza can split Irene's meteor with a good portion of her bones broken, which I consider that more debilitating than drowsiness. Gray has a DeS advantage against Larcade. Jellal can probably blitz him. You only need an attack on the level of WSD rought silk to take him out, and anyone on this list can match that attack with one of their own.

 

[Seven777]

This is what it takes to beat Larcade. Demolition Fist would be overkill. Natsu doesn't need to hit Larcade with an attack that would erase Zeref. He just need to use the same power it would take for Sting to take out Larcade. He can arguably achieve this with base mode's punches.

Spoiler: Attack necessary to kill Larcade

The hard part is making sure they all line up for him to attack, and maybe with the Spriggans varied power-set this would be harder to pull off. However, for the purposes of this tournament, he only needs to knock out Larcade anyways. I don't think there's any doubt that he can do that.



If you genuinely believe he would lose to Larcade, that's one thing. I have no problem with that. There are people who think Natsu is actually stronger, but vote against him anyways. That's the issue here.

There should be no issue for Acnologia eating the attack. God Serena might be a different story. I don't believe that slayers can eat attacks that vastly overwhelms them. At least, not for stuff like punches. It's the same reason I wouldn't have Natsu being able to eat August's melt nukes.

That attack is whats required to injure an already trashed Larcade. The dude was literally flat on his stomach struggling to crawl to the guild hall just before Zeref hit him with that attack.

DF Demolition Fist is overkill, sure, regular Demolition FIst? Not really, and being hindered by Larcade's hax makes Natsu firing off either of those spells at anywhere close to their normal strength questionable to say the least, even firing them off at all may not be an option. And yeah, getting the spriggans to line up would be difficult when he can barely keep his eyes open, especially when they're all bombarding him with attacks like Overskelter, Ant Lion Pit, Etherion etc.

But anyway, not saying Natsu loses, i voted for him after all, but i highly doubt the gap in strength is as large as God Serena and Hyberion's.

 

[Hermit]

He just need to use the same power it would take for Sting to take out Larcade. He can arguably achieve this with base mode's punches.

How terrible do you think Larcade's durability is?
This is someone who took Holy Nova and Holy Ray from Sting (post skip Sting, arguably stronger from the Grand Magic Games arc), tanked an attack from Archenemy with two fingers (a similar sword slash was able to tear a mountain in half, or a hill however you take it) and even needed an attack from Sting with White Shadow Dragon Mode to go down.
Even after that he still had strength to crawl till the guild hall, use a spell on Natsu that was actually working on him, despite him being fully healed and ready to go, and even after being blasted with a hole in the heart, was still alive so Zeref had to erase him personally.
If you honestly believe base mode Natsu's punches can achieve all this, well then:

 

[Axiomus]

That attack is whats required to injure an already trashed Larcade. The dude was literally flat on his stomach struggling to crawl to the guild hall just before Zeref hit him with that attack.

DF Demolition Fist is overkill, sure, regular Demolition FIst? Not really, and being hindered by Larcade's hax makes Natsu firing off either of those spells at anywhere close to their normal strength questionable to say the least, even firing them off at all may not be an option. And yeah, getting the spriggans to line up would be difficult when he can barely keep his eyes open, especially when they're all bombarding him with attacks like Overskelter, Ant Lion Pit, Etherion etc.

But anyway, not saying Natsu loses, i voted for him after all. But i highly doubt the gap in strength is as large as God Serena and Hyberion's.

Fair enough on Larcade being already defeated, but then again he was defeated by WSD rough silk. I have that attack below Zeref's blast so.

Maybe the gap between God Serena and Hyperion is an exaggeration, but the gap is still large enough for Natsu to at least knock out Larcade, which is really all that is required.

How terrible do you think Larcade's durability is?
This is someone who took Holy Nova and Holy Ray from Sting (post skip Sting, arguably stronger from the Grand Magic Games arc), tanked an attack from Archenemy with two fingers (a similar sword slash was able to tear a mountain in half, or a hill however you take it) and even needed an attack from Sting with White Shadow Dragon Mode to go down.
Even after that he still had strength to crawl till the guild hall, use a spell on Natsu that was actually working on him, despite him being fully healed and ready to go, and even after being blasted with a hole in the heart, was still alive so Zeref had to erase him personally.
If you honestly believe base mode Natsu's punches can achieve all this, well then:

1) Natsu doesn't need to kill Larcade, he just needs to beat him up so that he can't fight back. What Sting did to him is more than enough.
2) I consider Natsu's larger punches to be roughly the same level as Jellal's grand chariot.. Natsu two-shotted Neinhart with base mode punches. 3-4 of those hits and Larcade is down. If worse comes to worse, then Natsu uses demolition fist in base mode.

 

[Kay3795]

Lol people arent voting for natsu solely because hes natsu.

It becomes increasingly easier to see these things, doesn't it? That's basically what I was talking about in this thread

Spoiler

https://mangahelpers.com/forum/threads/alvarez-arc-power-rankings.3003033/page-355#post-4523902

Not just Natsu, but also pay close attention to Erza's fights in the tournament and observe some of the most appallingly blatant underestimation.

 

[Hermit]

If worse comes to worse, then Natsu uses demolition fist in base mode.

While being weakened with hunger? Or R.I.P?
Can you throw an attack at full power when being weakened by sleep? Honestly speaking here..

 

[Axiomus]

While being weakened with hunger? Or R.I.P?
Can you throw an attack at full power when being weakened by sleep? Honestly speaking here..

Then he follows it up with an FDK roar.

 

[Nemispelled]

wasn't Larcade more damaged and hurt than Natsu? He was still able to crawl/walk to where they were fighting and affect Natsu, which is pretty impressive.

Wasn't it more like Zeref taking out Larcade when he was interfering? It's not like Zeref took advantage and started wailing on Natsu; he forced Larcade to stop the act and even killed him. The logic kinda makes no sense here.

Considering Larcade had a lot of time to rest (after being defeated by Sting), I don't see how he can be as crippled as people are making him to be.

When he was defeated by Sting, he looked stunned, not significantly injured. He probably crawled to Zeref for emotional sympathy. He wanted to appeal to what he believed was his "father".


Natsu, on the other hand, was fighting Zeref. It's hard to believe whatever Larcade did was more exhausting...

And Larcade put Natsu to sleep while he was fighting Zeref, so it was technically a 1v2 for Natsu.

Zeref didn't take Larcade out until after Natsu resisted the sleeping spell.

And that is my main point here.

I know that Larcade doesn't have the power to beat Natsu. His hax is his only chance at winning.

But as I said before, Natsu resisted his hax (sleeping spell) while fighting Zeref.

That means, in a 1v1, Natsu is going to pull off a win against Larcade, regardless of his hax.

 

[M3J]

It becomes increasingly easier to see these things, doesn't it? That's basically what I was talking about in this thread

Spoiler

https://mangahelpers.com/forum/threads/alvarez-arc-power-rankings.3003033/page-355#post-4523902

Not just Natsu, but also pay close attention to Erza's fights in the tournament and observe some of the most appallingly blatant underestimation.

Erza has far more haters than Natsu does. I hope few people here will get mad and cry about it. Otherwise that's hypocritical as well.

But yeah, if Natsu gets affected by Larcade's spells, he's gonna have hard time dealing damage to Larcade or even being fast enough to touch him. I still think Natsu also forced himself upon Lucy, so it's quite possible he'd be affected by orgasm magic.

 

[Seven777]

Considering Larcade had a lot of time to rest (after being defeated by Sting), I don't see how he can be as crippled as people are making him to be.

When he was defeated by Sting, he looked stunned, not significantly injured. He probably crawled to Zeref for emotional sympathy. He wanted to appeal to what he believed was his "father".


Natsu, on the other hand, was fighting Zeref. It's hard to believe whatever Larcade did was more exhausting...

And Larcade put Natsu to sleep while he was fighting Zeref, so it was technically a 1v2 for Natsu.

Zeref didn't take Larcade out until after Natsu resisted the sleeping spell.

And that is my main point here.

I know that Larcade doesn't have the power to beat Natsu. His hax is his only chance at winning.

But as I said before, Natsu resisted his hax (sleeping spell) while fighting Zeref.

That means, in a 1v1, Natsu is going to pull off a win against Larcade.

Nah dude, he was crawling long before Zeref could even spot him.

Spoiler

Look at that poor bastard crawling through the streets, nowhere even close to the guildhall

 

[M3J]

Considering Larcade had a lot of time to rest (after being defeated by Sting), I don't see how he can be as crippled as people are making him to be.

When he was defeated by Sting, he looked stunned, not significantly injured. He probably crawled to Zeref for emotional sympathy. He wanted to appeal to what he believed was his "father".


Natsu, on the other hand, was fighting Zeref. It's hard to believe whatever Larcade did was more exhausting...

And Larcade put Natsu to sleep while he was fighting Zeref, so it was technically a 1v2 for Natsu.

Zeref didn't take Larcade out until after Natsu resisted the sleeping spell.

And that is my main point here.

I know that Larcade doesn't have the power to beat Natsu. His hax is his only chance at winning.

But as I said before, Natsu resisted his hax (sleeping spell) while fighting Zeref.

That means, in a 1v1, Natsu is going to pull off a win against Larcade, regardless of his hax.

Doesn't look like he had any rest since crawling while in pain takes up energy. I doubt he'd crawl just for sympathy or let himself be hit by Zeref that easily. He's still in worse shape than Natsu.

But Zeref stopped and went after Larcade instead. If it was 1v2, then Zeref wouldn't get in Larcade's way. I also don't see Natsu being strong enough to win, minus that attack he used on FH Zeref.