Battle Adult Gon vs Meruem?

[Machi-tan]

Good points the both of you, really great discussion i must say!

But since we're drawing on what little we know from the Anime and manga, Meruem would have to be faster by leaps and bounds. Gon had nothing. NOTHING that makes him seem blindingly fast, except when he left pitou's vision for a moment to get ready for the fight and she flipped out thinking he was going to fight the king. and the attack dodge. It's been stated that most people who fight Netero don't even see his Hatsu get set up before the attack all they see is the flash of light (aka Pitou's first experience) before they are destroyed. For a physical movement to seem like a flash of colored light says alot about it's speed, and for Meruem to be able to keep up with, successfully counter and track 10000s of these says even more about his natural speed. Gon being caught off guard by pitou says something about his speed. Sure, he wasn't as alert as the first dodge when she tried basically the same attack, but from what we know Gon is hyper sensitive, after all he was able to sense Komugi's life force and call Pitou's bluff about the heal time. It took Killua in God speed's full reaction time to push gon out the way so the attack barely grazed him.

What Meruem took advantage of wasn't even qualified as a mistake, just natural rhyme. He knew what Netero was going to do well ahead of time and cornered him before he could consolidate his defenses. Although you can argue that Netero preferring a certain pattern of attack as a defense is indeed a mistake, biases appear in all of us. The largest one being, which hand do you write with? Right? Left? If someone forced you to write with the opposite hand, naturally the writing would be sloppier than the dominate, it wasn't necessarily a mistake for you to make that preference in your life as much as it is someone else's for picking out that particular weakness.

Meruem's tail whips = Auraless forms of punishment he gave out to his servants he thought were out of line, far be it from him if they died or not. Gon's aura enhanced kicked to the creature he's been harboring ill will towards since the begginning of the arc under the life and death convenant he placed himself under.. The two are no where near comparable. Of course gon did more, because he put more effort, and more raw emotion into hurting pitou and plus having a leg that probably weighs more than your target overall doesn't hurt your chances either...

 

[Fox666]

I said they aren't stronger than the Zero Hand. So yes, only Jajanken can do anything worthy of mentioning.

Despite Netero barely giving Meryem any chance to attack him, the entire battle showed attacks lacked the power to cause any significant injury to Meryem. Thus I don't think it's exceptional for Gon's kick to surpass Netero's Zero Hand.

 

[KingOfNight]

I don't really see how what happened with Pitou is so significant, had it been Meruem it would have been the same, he would have not reached Netero. All of this happened in a fraction of seconds, it was only depicted with more details due to Shinteki Kenchou. Meruem found an opening an attacked at high speed, Netero could do nothing about this, it is a testament of his speed and it is exactly what Netero was trying to avoid. Netero move HK with hand motions, once the attack patterns have been chosen he must pray again to change the attacks. We all knew Meruem was fast enough for this but it doesn't make him faster than Gon.

It wouldn't have been the same thing, because it did happen with Meruem and we did see that it was a different outcome. See, you completely ignore the fact that Meurem was, to some degree, able to match HK in speed and exchange a more or less equal amount of blows with it. That in of itself makes him a creature of exceptional speed. It does make him faster than Gon unless you can prove otherwise.

Netero is not faster than Pitou, his hand motions and Kannon attacks are.

I'm pretty sure you knew what I meant, but chose to respond like this anyway.

1. It was a Gon without aura protecting his body.
2. Gon can take off his head too.

1. He was protected with Aura unless you can show otherwise.
2. He can't as I'm proving that to you below.

...Gon's kick was a casual attack without aura. GOn has enough aura to rival Meruem, so by coating his attacks with aura he has more than enough power to injure him, especially since he is an Enhancer. A hit on the head can be dodged, and blocked, by using Ken and Ryu, as against Knuckle he can resit this kind of attack. Covering your body with aura to fight is basic for during Nen battles.

Who exactly told you that it was a hit without Aura? Who told you that he has enough Aura to rival Meruem? Meruem's Aura was so powerful and horrifying that it made Pitou regret ever jumping to help him. I don't remember Gon's Aura making Pitou regret acting on her instincts. Also, his kick was not casual, unless you're watching the Anime only. It was clearly a full powered, malevolent kick. The King can also use Ryu or Ken instinctively. And Gon can't dodge a hit on the head from someone that fast, and even if he dodged once, he's not gonna dodge 1000 times to all parts of his body. He could punch of kick the King as much as he wants, he's most certainly not gonna cause enough damage to defeat the King before his head is rolling on the ground.

And they didn't die, why?

My point is, he didn't grab their heads and rip it off with his hands, he tail slapped them. So you're comparing two different things.

Meruem is not really an adept of a "deadly form of combat", he was not even one year, Gon has much more combat experience than him and practiced martial arts. He hits people with the intention to kill them in one strike, the only reason he was slicing Netero's limbs is because he didn't want to kill him. And Gon has Scissors that he can use at mid range to slice people, a range where Meruem can do nothing.

He's the King of the Chimera ants. His basic instincts and talents far transcend that of Gon. He could, by simply playing Gungi, see a hole in an otherwise perfect Nen ability. His fighting style is natural for him, just like how tigers are considered to be more dangerous than bears because of their deadly, fast and accurate attacks. Meruem's form of combat has always been beheading people. Gon's martial arts experience doesn't involve quick and accurate limb ripping, it involves punching and kicking. And his scissors is hardly a mid range attack as it only goes for like two meters around him, and range where Meruem might as well tail slap him. What you're saying is like me saying that since Feitan can speed-blitz behead people, then Uvogin can too as he has enough strength to do so, despite the fact that Uvogin hasn't ripped a single limb in this whole Manga.

---------- Post added at 10:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 AM ----------

Despite Netero barely giving Meryem any chance to attack him, the entire battle showed attacks lacked the power to cause any significant injury to Meryem. Thus I don't think it's exceptional for Gon's kick to surpass Netero's Zero Hand.

It's not as though the attacks weren't powerful, it's just that Meruem was that durable. The Zero was an attack that had enough power to scare Killua off from miles away(while he wasn't that scared when he felt the Janken Rock Aura from a closer range).

 

[shionoro]

LOL WHAT?! How in the hell did Killua save Gon when his arm was cut off by Pitou? Are you talkit about when Kite fought Pitou? Because immediately after Gon had his arm cut off he immediately grabbed his cut off arm and crushed the shit out of Pitou.

Also- great post Demonspeed. I'm glad you posted the picture of Gon kicking Pitou because the guy that said only jajenkan could do anything is ridiculously wrong.

No, i am talking about the moment when gon thought pitou was done already because she lost her head, but dr blythe still moved her in a surprise attack and killuah pushed him out of the way.
Super Gon woulda died right there if it wasn't for Killuah.

 

[Fox666]

The Zero was an attack that had enough power to scare Killua off from miles away

Is that from a filler? Because it's not in the manga.

 

[KingOfNight]

Is that from a filler? Because it's not in the manga.

http://www.mangareader.net/207-47303-12/hunter-x-hunter/chapter-297.html

It is in the Manga.

 

[Fox666]

Oh, you meant that. That's Netero murderous intent, similar to Illumi.

 

[KingOfNight]

It was the HK Zero Hand's murderous intent, or it's Aura. It was not Netero's.

 

[Demonspeed]

It wouldn't have been the same thing, because it did happen with Meruem and we did see that it was a different outcome. See, you completely ignore the fact that Meurem was, to some degree, able to match HK in speed and exchange a more or less equal amount of blows with it. That in of itself makes him a creature of exceptional speed. It does make him faster than Gon unless you can prove otherwise.

Meruem got blasted by Netero's attack several times during the battle, had he been in Pitou's place he would have been blasted too. Being able to match HK's palm attacks by exchanging blows with HK doesn't make him faster than Gon, it's the speed of his arm, not his running speed, Meruem said himself that Netero's hand motions outspeeds him. Because he was able to do it doesn't make him faster than Gon, especially when we knows that exchange of blows is not only about speed, power and durability have their importance too.

I'm pretty sure you knew what I meant, but chose to respond like this anyway.

You agree with me then?

1. He was protected with Aura unless you can show otherwise.
2. He can't as I'm proving that to you below.

Spoiler

But if you mean protected as the natural aura protecting every Nen user then he was.

Who exactly told you that it was a hit without Aura? Who told you that he has enough Aura to rival Meruem? Meruem's Aura was so powerful and horrifying that it made Pitou regret ever jumping to help him. I don't remember Gon's Aura making Pitou regret acting on her instincts. Also, his kick was not casual, unless you're watching the Anime only. It was clearly a full powered, malevolent kick. The King can also use Ryu or Ken instinctively. And Gon can't dodge a hit on the head from someone that fast, and even if he dodged once, he's not gonna dodge 1000 times to all parts of his body. He could punch of kick the King as much as he wants, he's most certainly not gonna cause enough damage to defeat the King before his head is rolling on the ground.

I have been saying that it was without aura since the beginning and only now do you disagree with it, there is aura surrounding his kick only in the anime. We know Nen is influenced by feelings, Meruem was angered and depressed by Komugi's injury and Pitou felt it. She felt his aura when he ate that soldier and he ate nothing after this, it hadn't grown. Pitou has the creepiest aura of HXH so far, followed by Hisoka and Illumi, does it make them stronger than everyone? At this moment she had just felt Meruem's sadness. Meruem got afraid by Netero too even though he is undeniably the strongest.

OK, it was not said that it was rivaling Meruem, Pitou was scared and said his fangs could kill the King, her fears came true when Gon matured and she was relieved to be the one to die . So, she was saying that Meruem would have died against adult Gon.

My point is, he didn't grab their heads and rip it off with his hands, he tail slapped them. So you're comparing two different things.

Huh, Meruem can destroy heads with his tail, his tail slap is violent too, compared to one's kick his attack was not very impressive. I don't see why he would not be able to retaliate.

He's the King of the Chimera ants. His basic instincts and talents far transcend that of Gon. He could, by simply playing Gungi, see a hole in an otherwise perfect Nen ability. His fighting style is natural for him, just like how tigers are considered to be more dangerous than bears because of their deadly, fast and accurate attacks. Meruem's form of combat has always been beheading people. Gon's martial arts experience doesn't involve quick and accurate limb ripping, it involves punching and kicking. And his scissors is hardly a mid range attack as it only goes for like two meters around him, and range where Meruem might as well tail slap him. What you're saying is like me saying that since Feitan can speed-blitz behead people, then Uvogin can too as he has enough strength to do so, despite the fact that Uvogin hasn't ripped a single limb in this whole Manga.

Meruem is a genius, it doesn't make him a fighting genius, he is the smartest and is born with power. I don't see how you can say his basic instincts are superior to Gon's.

Marital arts involves a lot of things and he already faced or sparred with opponents who are prone to do this. How can you analyze Meruem's fighting style so much when he only got one serious fight in this manga? Quite sure Scissors has been described as a mid range attack but whatever, its range is better than Meruem's tail and more powerful

 

[KingOfNight]

Meruem got blasted by Netero's attack several times during the battle, had he been in Pitou's place he would have been blasted too. Being able to match HK's palm attacks by exchanging blows with HK doesn't make him faster than Gon, it's the speed of his arm, not his running speed, Meruem said himself that Netero's hand motions outspeeds him. Because he was able to do it doesn't make him faster than Gon, especially when we knows that exchange of blows is not only about speed, power and durability have their importance too.

Okay, I've been playing around this for a while, but that's enough. Meruem established himself as one of the two fastest characters in the series. It's up to you to show that Gon is anywhere near that speed. You can't tell me "this doesn't make him faster than Gon" because frankly, it's nonsense. You have to show me why it WOULDN'T make him faster than Gon. You can't set Gon's speed at infinity hope to have a conclusion to this argument.

You agree with me then?

Yes, but it hasn't much to do with the quote you replied to.

I have been saying that it was without aura since the beginning and only now do you disagree with it, there is aura surrounding his kick only in the anime. We know Nen is influenced by feelings, Meruem was angered and depressed by Komugi's injury and Pitou felt it. She felt his aura when he ate that soldier and he ate nothing after this, it hadn't grown. Pitou has the creepiest aura of HXH so far, followed by Hisoka and Illumi, does it make them stronger than everyone? At this moment she had just felt Meruem's sadness. Meruem got afraid by Netero too even though he is undeniably the strongest.

Actually, I've previously pointed this out but because I thought we wouldn't dwell in it too much, I edited it out. There's always Aura surrounding Nen users body. It's ridiculous to assume that Gon, who's whole body was overflowing with Aura prior to Pitou's attack, would for some reason cut off the Aura around his leg before kicking, and it's even more absurd to assume that an Aura-less kick could do this much damage when even Pitou, with her monstrous physical strength, would've lost against Gon and Killua if she didn't user her Aura against them. So Meruem's anger at Komugi's injury, exceeds that of Gon's fury? I seriously doubt that. His ominous Aura was definitely influenced by his state of emotions at that time, but the narration also made it clear that it had a lot of power in it, enough to make Pitou regret jumping. No matter how evil your Aura is, if you're weak, it's not gonna scare anyone.

OK, it was not said that it was rivaling Meruem, Pitou was scared and said his fangs could kill the King, her fears came true when Gon matured and she was relieved to be the one to die . So, she was saying that Meruem would have died against adult Gon.

Not kill the King, but reach him. She was poised to kill Gon since before he transformed and was horrified at the thought of Netero reaching the King. Doesn't mean either of those two could kill him at that time.

Huh, Meruem can destroy heads with his tail, his tail slap is violent too, compared to one's kick his attack was not very impressive. I don't see why he would not be able to retaliate.

Because he wouldn't be tail slapped, he would be beheaded by the Kings hands, which are undoubtedly more powerful that his tail.

Meruem is a genius, it doesn't make him a fighting genius, he is the smartest and is born with power. I don't see how you can say his basic instincts are superior to Gon's.

Marital arts involves a lot of things and he already faced or sparred with opponents who are prone to do this. How can you analyze Meruem's fighting style so much when he only got one serious fight in this manga? Quite sure Scissors has been described as a mid range attack but whatever, its range is better than Meruem's tail and more powerful

Again, his fighting skills are instinctive as is his use of Nen.

Meurem's natural killing style already outclassed the skills of the man who stands at the summit of the Martial Arts world. How can I analyze his fighting style? Let's see:

Spoiler

1.When he was born, he beheaded anyone who didn't listen.

2.When he attacked the little girl's parents, he beheaded them(which Pitou told him to stop doing it after which he attempted to behead her).

3.When fighting those Nen guards at the palace, he beheaded them(at least in the Anime).

4.When fighting Netero, he took off his limbs to avoid killing him(as he needed him alive).

5.He later threatened to behead Pouf and Youpi for lying at him.

6.Welfin then stated that the King would behead him before he could even activate his Nen ability.

It's not that difficult to see that his combat style is centered around beheading people.

 

[Fox666]

It was the HK Zero Hand's murderous intent, or it's Aura. It was not Netero's.

I don't think a technique has a "murderous intent" on it's own. That said, the point is, it's not something related to the power. For example, Killua freaked out more with Illumi than he did with the Royal Guard.

 

[KingOfNight]

I don't think a technique has a "murderous intent" on it's own. That said, the point is, it's not something related to the power. For example, Killua freaked out more with Illumi than he did with the Royal Guard.

The narration for both the Manga and Anime said "Its murderous intent." Since they used "its" rather than "his", it means they were referring to the HK. It's a technique, so it's likely that it was a reference to it's power since Netero was "sharpening his fangs."

 

[Demonspeed]

Okay, I've been playing around this for a while, but that's enough. Meruem established himself as one of the two fastest characters in the series. It's up to you to show that Gon is anywhere near that speed. You can't tell me "this doesn't make him faster than Gon" because frankly, it's nonsense. You have to show me why it WOULDN'T make him faster than Gon. You can't set Gon's speed at infinity hope to have a conclusion to this argument.

Good, you will see that my reasoning is very simple. Let's take the speed of these characters: Meruem, Pitou and Netero.

Obviously Meruem is the fastest, followed by Pitou and then Netero: Meruem> Pitou> Netero.

Lets add Kid Gon: Meruem> Pitou> Netero> Kid Gon.

After the transformation Gon becomes faster than Pitou: Gon and Meruem> Pitou> Netero.

You can't say that Meruem is faster than Adult Gon. Even if Meruem was faster, he would not be much faster, not fast to the point he could blitz him as you said, same for Gon. Simple as that.

Meruem has not even a single feat putting him above Pitou in terms of speed. We are putting him above simply because he is the King. Gon outspeeding Pitou is a better feat that everything he did. Exchanging blows with someone is not a testament of speed, speed is not even the main factor, Knuckle exchanged blows with Gon but he is much faster than him, it was clear during their battle. Shoot exchanged blows with Youpi but Youpi is the fastest.

Actually, I've previously pointed this out but because I thought we wouldn't dwell in it too much, I edited it out. There's always Aura surrounding Nen users body. It's ridiculous to assume that Gon, who's whole body was overflowing with Aura prior to Pitou's attack, would for some reason cut off the Aura around his leg before kicking, and it's even more absurd to assume that an Aura-less kick could do this much damage when even Pitou, with her monstrous physical strength, would've lost against Gon and Killua if she didn't user her Aura against them.

I said in my post that if you are only talking about the natural Aura surrounding every Nen users you are right but Gon was not overflowing with Aura when he kicked Pitou.

Spoiler

When Aura was surrounding him it was clearly visible, here and here his Aura is visible, it is not when he was kicking her.

So Meruem's anger at Komugi's injury, exceeds that of Gon's fury? I seriously doubt that. His ominous Aura was definitely influenced by his state of emotions at that time, but the narration also made it clear that it had a lot of power in it, enough to make Pitou regret jumping. No matter how evil your Aura is, if you're weak, it's not gonna scare anyone. Not kill the King, but reach him. She was poised to kill Gon since before he transformed and was horrified at the thought of Netero reaching the King. Doesn't mean either of those two could kill him at that time.

Nobody is saying that Meruem is weak but it is the anger which makes Pitou regret jumping, she already felt his aura when he ate the bodyguard but this time, his negative feelings affected her. Pitou was scared by Gon since he found her with Komugi and that's why she decided to do everything him because she had a foreboding, even Pouf said it was good that Gon decided to stay with Pitou because eh was the most dangerous opponent due to his will all of this in is Ch.295. She said his fangs could reach Meruem's throat while he was transforming she said she was right. And when she died she said she was glad to be the one to die.

It means that she thought Gon would have killed Meruem with this power, since he is the only one she cares about and she felt Meruem's Aura previously so her statement is right.

Because he wouldn't be tail slapped, he would be beheaded by the Kings hands, which are undoubtedly more powerful that his tail.

Nothing, absolutely nothing implies that his hands are more powerful than his tail, nothing at all.

Again, his fighting skills are instinctive as is his use of Nen.

Meurem's natural killing style already outclassed the skills of the man who stands at the summit of the Martial Arts world.

You don't need to be skilled in martial arts when you have this level of power, what permitted Meruem to resist to Netro's attacks was his durable body. In terms of combat mastery he is not comparable to Netero who is the Shingen-ryu Kung master.

How can I analyze his fighting style? Let's see:

Spoiler

1.When he was born, he beheaded anyone who didn't listen.

2.When he attacked the little girl's parents, he beheaded them(which Pitou told him to stop doing it after which he attempted to behead her).

3.When fighting those Nen guards at the palace, he beheaded them(at least in the Anime).

4.When fighting Netero, he took off his limbs to avoid killing him(as he needed him alive).

5.He later threatened to behead Pouf and Youpi for lying at him.

6.Welfin then stated that the King would behead him before he could even activate his Nen ability.

It's not that difficult to see that his combat style is centered around beheading people.

He beheaded them via tail slap and the ones not durable enough die, these were not even fights. It's not like it's his style to behead people, I don't remember him saying that he would behead Pouf and Youpi, he said that he would kill them if they lie. And he was intending to devour Welfin because he was starving, sure he would have started by the head but devour someone has nothing to do with your fighting style. It's like saying that Phinks fighting style revolves around twisting people's necks.

 

[IamJacky]

DemonSpeed, for the record, Gon's kick WAS surrounded with Nen, in fact, it was the strongest type of all - Ko (where almost all of the user's nen is concentrated at certain body part, in this case, Super Gon's foot)

SEE HERE

 

[Demonspeed]

DemonSpeed, for the record, Gon's kick WAS surrounded with Nen, in fact, it was the strongest type of all - Ko (where almost all of the user's nen is concentrated at certain body part, in this case, Super Gon's foot)

SEE HERE

No, this is not Ko but Gyo. Ko is focusing all of his Aura on a body part, that's what he used for Rock after this kick. If this kick was imbued with Aura it just means that Meruem would have been injured by it as well.

And there is also this part with Gon hitting Zombie Pitou with his sliced arm, stabbing Pitou with it and finishing her for good with a much more powerful Rock than his first one.

 

[KingOfNight]

Meruem has not even a single feat putting him above Pitou in terms of speed. We are putting him above simply because he is the King. Gon outspeeding Pitou is a better feat that everything he did. Exchanging blows with someone is not a testament of speed, speed is not even the main factor, Knuckle exchanged blows with Gon but he is much faster than him, it was clear during their battle. Shoot exchanged blows with Youpi but Youpi is the fastest.

Exchanging blows with someone(equally) is in fact a testament that your speed is comparable. Otherwise it would be a one sided increasing number of blows. Shoot wasn't exchanging an equal amount of blows with Youpi, not by any stretch of the imagination, and neither was Gon who was being tossed around all over the place by Knuckle. Also, Netero's running speed is irrelevant. The HK transcends Gon and Pitou's speed by a landslide. And matching that makes Meruem considerably faster than them. Your logic is a fraud because you're using Netero's running speed purposely despite fully knowing that it's completely irrelevant to our discussion.

I said in my post that if you are only talking about the natural Aura surrounding every Nen users you are right but Gon was not overflowing with Aura when he kicked Pitou.

There you go. lamJacky gave you the answer you wanted. I can't even believe I missed that for so long.

Nobody is saying that Meruem is weak but it is the anger which makes Pitou regret jumping, she already felt his aura when he ate the bodyguard but this time, his negative feelings affected her. Pitou was scared by Gon since he found her with Komugi and that's why she decided to do everything him because she had a foreboding, even Pouf said it was good that Gon decided to stay with Pitou because eh was the most dangerous opponent due to his will all of this in is Ch.295. She said his fangs could reach Meruem's throat while he was transforming she said she was right. And when she died she said she was glad to be the one to die.

Like I said before, non of the links or pictures you provide are working.

I guess I'll give you it being more about the ominous nature of the Aura rather than it's power(mainly because I'm not sure what it is and am checking different translations).

Again, Pitou was also horrified of Netero so her statement doesn't hold much weight.

Nothing, absolutely nothing implies that his hands are more powerful than his tail, nothing at all.

Nothing except the common sense that a tail blow is not like ripping limbs. Also, like I said before, he's strong enough to rip his arm off. So his strength is greater than his durability.

You don't need to be skilled in martial arts when you have this level of power, what permitted Meruem to resist to Netro's attacks was his durable body. In terms of combat mastery he is not comparable to Netero who is the Shingen-ryu Kung master.

You're the one who kept bringing in martial arts skill as if they would change anything. And now you're making it seem as if I'm saying Meruem needs any martial art skills.

He beheaded them via tail slap and the ones not durable enough die, these were not even fights. It's not like it's his style to behead people, I don't remember him saying that he would behead Pouf and Youpi, he said that he would kill them if they lie. And he was intending to devour Welfin because he was starving, sure he would have started by the head but devour someone has nothing to do with your fighting style. It's like saying that Phinks fighting style revolves around twisting people's necks.

http://www.mangareader.net/207-51830-6/hunter-x-hunter/chapter-309.html

"Without that, I would've beheaded you both a long time ago." He even gave it to you verbatim. Also, Welfin himself stated that the King would send his head flying, so even he seems to understand how Meruem operates.

Twisting people's neck and ripping their limbs off is something Phinks and Meruem do when they can. Are you seriously trying to argue that Meruem won't take off Gon's head when he can?

 

[Demonspeed]

So, you can't see my links but see the links of the others?

Exchanging blows with someone(equally) is in fact a testament that your speed is comparable. Otherwise it would be a one sided increasing number of blows. Shoot wasn't exchanging an equal amount of blows with Youpi, not by any stretch of the imagination, and neither was Gon who was being tossed around all over the place by Knuckle. Also, Netero's running speed is irrelevant. The HK transcends Gon and Pitou's speed by a landslide. And matching that makes Meruem considerably faster than them. Your logic is a fraud because you're using Netero's running speed purposely despite fully knowing that it's completely irrelevant to our discussion.

How can you say that Meruem was trading blows equally? All we know is that they exchanged blows, and Meruem while taking the attacks waited for Netero to make the move he was waiting for and attacked. HK is a giant statue with big palms, and Meruem has much more physical strength and durability, he is much smaller too, all of this has its importance. It's also impossible for this exchange to be a simple exchange of fists because HK has 99 hands, unless you think Meruem can rival 99 hands with his 2 hands which is ridiculous. The only move of Netero who surpasses Meruem's by far is the hand motions, HK moves are fast but not to the point he can't defend himself for certain attacks, he even blocked a palm strike in Ch. 291. His strategy to win was to continuously attack, change angles so that he will use more palm strikes and find the opening by analyzing Netero's breath. So during these exchanges he needed to attack from different angles, it was not as simple as you said. Netero can make his hand gestures in less than 0.01 seconds, he has 99 hands, being able to exchange blows in less than 1 minute should be a piece of cake. EVen at extremely close range, Meruem was unable to hit Netero before he prayed and made move one of his hands. You are taking an exchange which was not even seen and using it as if it was happening as you think. No one here knows how that exchange was, but it is clear that it happened as in Meruem's prediction. It was not an equal exchange, he was taking most of the attacks, was retaliating, changed angles to make Netero attack more and more from different positions, resisted to them, waited for the crucial moment and attacked.

Again, Pitou was also horrified of Netero so her statement doesn't hold much weight.

She was not horrified of Netero, she considered him as the most dangerous and tried to kill him. You don't smile fearlessly before someone you are horrified of. every guards would panick if someone with the intent to kill comes close to the King because it's their duty. Pitou felt Meruem's Aura and knows what he is apable of, you can't say she was wrong, what she said are an undeniable facts. Even without this, Gon who was so weak comparable to her became so strong that he could stomp her, something nobody among human Nen users could do. She said his fangs could reach Meruem's throat and she said that she was glad to be the one to die, so Gon was stronger than Meruem. The level he reached made him that powerful.

Nothing except the common sense that a tail blow is not like ripping limbs. Also, like I said before, he's strong enough to rip his arm off. So his strength is greater than his durability.

Meruem can rip limbs with his tail, it's like a 5th limb for him. You were saying that he would tear Gon's head with his arms by blitzing him, something he never done, he always beheaded opponents with tail slaps. Which were not powerful enough to injure the RGs to that degree. Meruem is a CHimera Ant, a being inexistent IRL. Ripping limbs and tail slapping someone are different but you said his arms were more powerful than his lambs, which is something which can't be proven.

You're the one who kept bringing in martial arts skill as if they would change anything. And now you're making it seem as if I'm saying Meruem needs any martial art skills.



http://www.mangareader.net/207-51830-6/hunter-x-hunter/chapter-309.html

"Without that, I would've beheaded you both a long time ago." He even gave it to you verbatim. Also, Welfin himself stated that the King would send his head flying, so even he seems to understand how Meruem operates.

Twisting people's neck and ripping their limbs off is something Phinks and Meruem do when they can. Are you seriously trying to argue that Meruem won't take off Gon's head when he can?

Trading blows against someeone with martial arts an someone who is not one are 2 different things, it's common sense. The way someone use his aura in a fight is crucial too. He would have beheaded them, OK. But Welfin was going to be eaten. By comparing it with Phinks I wanted to show that these are simple killing moves that they use, Killua does the same too but it is not as simple in a fight. Meruem beheads by tail slapping, this is what is more important here. You can't seriously think that he will only use his tail and try to behead him.

 

[KingOfNight]

So, you can't see my links but see the links of the others?

Yes. However, your recent links involving Gon grabbing his arm and stabbing Pitou are visible. The previous ones weren't.

How can you say that Meruem was trading blows equally? All we know is that they exchanged blows, and Meruem while taking the attacks waited for Netero to make the move he was waiting for and attacked. HK is a giant statue with big palms, and Meruem has much more physical strength and durability, he is much smaller too, all of this has its importance. It's also impossible for this exchange to be a simple exchange of fists because HK has 99 hands, unless you think Meruem can rival 99 hands with his 2 hands which is ridiculous. The only move of Netero who surpasses Meruem's by far is the hand motions, HK moves are fast but not to the point he can't defend himself for certain attacks, he even blocked a palm strike in Ch. 291. His strategy to win was to continuously attack, change angles so that he will use more palm strikes and find the opening by analyzing Netero's breath. So during these exchanges he needed to attack from different angles, it was not as simple as you said. Netero can make his hand gestures in less than 0.01 seconds, he has 99 hands, being able to exchange blows in less than 1 minute should be a piece of cake. EVen at extremely close range, Meruem was unable to hit Netero before he prayed and made move one of his hands. You are taking an exchange which was not even seen and using it as if it was happening as you think. No one here knows how that exchange was, but it is clear that it happened as in Meruem's prediction. It was not an equal exchange, he was taking most of the attacks, was retaliating, changed angles to make Netero attack more and more from different positions, resisted to them, waited for the crucial moment and attacked.

You're basically breaking it down pointlessly and avoiding the main point. According to the narrator, the clash between the two resulted in an exchange of thousands of fists that sparked countless fireworks around them. I know they were equal to some degree because if they weren't, it wouldn't have been an exchange of fists and it wouldn't have sparked countless fireworks around them. Considering the HK is faster than anything in this Manga(by a landslide), being able to match it blow for blow(or even three blows for one blow, doesn't matter) is unarguably a speed feet completely above everything bar the HK itself.

She was not horrified of Netero, she considered him as the most dangerous and tried to kill him. You don't smile fearlessly before someone you are horrified of. every guards would panick if someone with the intent to kill comes close to the King because it's their duty. Pitou felt Meruem's Aura and knows what he is apable of, you can't say she was wrong, what she said are an undeniable facts. Even without this, Gon who was so weak comparable to her became so strong that he could stomp her, something nobody among human Nen users could do. She said his fangs could reach Meruem's throat and she said that she was glad to be the one to die, so Gon was stronger than Meruem. The level he reached made him that powerful.

She smiled because she thought she had him, but his presence was enough to raise her senses to their very peak. Pitou didn't know what Meruem was capable of, not by an stretch of the imagination. What she felt from his Aura was not in anyway, shape, or form, his true strength. Take an example of Pouf and Youpi, when Meruem recovered from the Rose, they could feel his Aura and tell that he's gotten much stronger. However, a few minutes later they told him it was dangerous for him to search out the intruders(and they knew what those intruders are capable of) and even implied that they could defeat him(lol), to which Meruem proceeded to answer by showing his true strength. No surprise at all, his true strength was beyond anything they imagined. Just like Pouf and Youpi, Pitou had no knowledge of pre-rose Meruem's true strength(I'm emphasizing that I'm still talking about pre-rose despite giving an example of his post-rose self to avoid confusion) and was repeatedly surprised every time he did something(like destroy the Chimera Ants nest's walls), so her statement doesn't hold any sort of weight. The fact that the RGs actually believed, for one second, that a Meruem who's more powerful than his previous state(even without needing to see just how much more powerful he is) could be defeated by opponents that couldn't even defeat them, is enough to show that what they say regarding the King is always misguided by their overprotective nature of him.

Meruem can rip limbs with his tail, it's like a 5th limb for him. You were saying that he would tear Gon's head with his arms by blitzing him, something he never done, he always beheaded opponents with tail slaps. Which were not powerful enough to injure the RGs to that degree. Meruem is a CHimera Ant, a being inexistent IRL. Ripping limbs and tail slapping someone are different but you said his arms were more powerful than his lambs, which is something which can't be proven.

Did you see his fight with Netero? Did her rip out his limbs with his hands or not? Yes? Is that any different from ripping his head off which he didn't do because he needed him alive? No? Exactly. His tail is simply strong and fast enough to smash heads. I really wonder why you waste time with these kinds of unnecessary replies. I would assume it's common sense that in order to rip a limb off, your arm has to have more strength than that limbs durability.

Trading blows with some with martial arts an someone who is not one are 2 different things, it's common sense. The way someone use his aura in a fight is crucial too. He would have beheaded them, OK. But Welfin was going to be eaten. By comparing it with Phinks I wanted to show that these are simple killing moves that they use, Killua does the same too but it is not as simple in a fight. Meruem beheads by tail slapping, this is what is more important here. You can't seriously think that he will only use his tail and try to behead him.

I still don't see how that matters into our discussion when, again, he easily defeated the greatest of martial artists. I'm not saying he would use his tail at all. I have not even mentioned the tail slap to be of any relevance aside from to show that Meruem likes to behead people. In fact, I begun this very argument by stating that his tail strike being unable to injure Pitou is of no impact on the whole fight because he could rip off limbs with his hands if he feels like it.

 

[Machi-tan]

About gon vs Meruem speed debate, I'd have to give it to Meruem again (bias i know) but still:

First point: Dragon Dive
When the King was upset he compressed Netero, Pitou and Zeno's time. We know in Hunter x Hunter, to compress someone's time means that you're moving at a speed absurd (or preparing to) versus their own, to the point where only their heightened senses can barely follow you and they can barely move their bodies in response to anything. We also see this in the Meruem vs Netero fight, when Netero prepares his attacks, he compresses Meruem's time because the movement of preparation is much faster than Meruem can physically keep up with, even if his eyes and senses can follow along.

Zeno even told Silva that for once in his life (Paraphrasing because i don't have the quote on me) that he might have killed someone who wasn't the intended target, and he had his time compressed (Met an opponent whose physical speed seemed much greater than his). We know Pitou's senses were heightened after being blown away from the battle field by Netero's attack, so for the King to compress her time is an obvious give away that in terms of speed (or at least burst movement) the King was fast enough to push her heightened senses just to keep up with his subtle movements when he was holding Komugi. (she felt the king was vulnerable and was hauling ass all the way the castle, probably not much different than her heightened senses while fighting gon, who she feared would harm the king. So strictly speaking her being deathly afraid for the king and being on top of her RG game to save him still was barely fast enough to catch his subtle movements of him cradling Komugi, even if her senses tripled vs Gon the king would still compress her time by that regard)

Second point: Netero.
The King's time compression (as i mentioned before) was not nearly as bad as Pitou's when exposed to Netero's hatsu. The King saw everything from the actual hand movements, to the flow of energy, to the unleashed attack. Pitou's time was compressed so badly on first impression that all she saw was a flash of golden light. Arguably, just like the King eventually got used to the time compression of the attacks and avoided it, pitou could have done the same (?) but the first impression of the techniques imply that as far as physical speed and senses processing, Meruem is truely the king.

In closing, Meruem is clearly MUCH faster than Pitou. His speed vs her is comparable to Netero's hand movements vs meruem himself. Just ungodly given the context, Meruem wouldn't have to work very hard to kill Pitou either.

 

[Kanmuru]

There is no point in comparing Pitou speed to the king, come on..
If Pitou has 100 points in all stats Meruem is above 200 easily, he is just the epitome of the evolution of his race, pitou and the others royal guards can't compare to him in any area, not even close.
The king was not granted to be a "little" more faster or stronger than RG's, the diference should be abysmal, it is stated.
And we don't have many feats of normal Meruem but you just can think in Pitou x2 or x5(could be more, easily) times stronger/faster/inteligent/etc and that's it.