Battle Adult Gon vs Meruem?

[Demonspeed]

Yes. However, your recent links involving Gon grabbing his arm and stabbing Pitou are visible. The previous ones weren't.



You're basically breaking it down pointlessly and avoiding the main point. According to the narrator, the clash between the two resulted in an exchange of thousands of fists that sparked countless fireworks around them. I know they were equal to some degree because if they weren't, it wouldn't have been an exchange of fists and it wouldn't have sparked countless fireworks around them. Considering the HK is faster than anything in this Manga(by a landslide), being able to http://mangahelpers.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/1045-Community-Awards-2014match it blow for blow(or even three blows for one blow, doesn't matter) is unarguably a speed feet completely above everything bar the HK itself.

How do you picture this clash exactly? Since when sparks imply equality? Shoot and Youpi clashed, they were not equal you said it yourself. the Palm Strikes are not far faster than Meruem, only Netero prayers are(see here). It was not a classic exchange of moves, Meruem was taking the attacks, retaliating and moving from different angles so that Netero would create a blind spot. Once he found it Netero's palms could no more reach him.

Starting from here to the end of this chapter. They completed their strategies and that's exactly what happened. Meruem lead him to send strikes from different angles, he sliced Netero's limbs and Netero use Zero, but it was not powerful enough. It was not a clash with Meruem standing still and retaliating against 99 palms while he has only two.

She smiled because she thought she had him, but his presence was enough to raise her senses to their very peak. Pitou didn't know what Meruem was capable of, not by an stretch of the imagination. What she felt from his Aura was not in anyway, shape, or form, his true strength. Take an example of Pouf and Youpi, when Meruem recovered from the Rose, they could feel his Aura and tell that he's gotten much stronger. However, a few minutes later they told him it was dangerous for him to search out the intruders(and they knew what those intruders are capable of) and even implied that they could defeat him(lol), to which Meruem proceeded to answer by showing his true strength. No surprise at all, his true strength was beyond anything they imagined. Just like Pouf and Youpi, Pitou had no knowledge of pre-rose Meruem's true strength(I'm emphasizing that I'm still talking about pre-rose despite giving an example of his post-rose self to avoid confusion) and was repeatedly surprised every time he did something(like destroy the Chimera Ants nest's walls), so her statement doesn't hold any sort of weight. The fact that the RGs actually believed, for one second, that a Meruem who's more powerful than his previous state(even without needing to see just how much more powerful he is) could be defeated by opponents that couldn't even defeat them, is enough to show that what they say regarding the King is always misguided by their overprotective nature of him.

Stop this, you can't say it was not his true strength, he deployed his Aura and she felt it. That's how you show your power in this manga. Pouf didn't want him to be exposed to danger, that's how the RGs act, abilities are various too and what did Meruem do? He deployed his Aura and it was so powerful that their beliefs that Nen battles are not decided by Aura alone were shattered. As a HXH reader you should know this.

Did you see his fight with Netero? Did her rip out his limbs with his hands or not? Yes? Is that any different from ripping his head off which he didn't do because he needed him alive? No? Exactly. His tail is simply strong and fast enough to smash heads. I really wonder why you waste time with these kinds of unnecessary replies. I would assume it's common sense that in order to rip a limb off, your arm has to have more strength than that limbs durability.

Compared to the RGs Netero is fragile, he did it with his hand but he could have done it with his tail. You can't say that his hands are more powerful than his tail.

I still don't see how that matters into our discussion when, again, he easily defeated the greatest of martial artists. I'm not saying he would use his tail at all. I have not even mentioned the tail slap to be of any relevance aside from to show that Meruem likes to behead people. In fact, I begun this very argument by stating that his tail strike being unable to injure Pitou is of no impact on the whole fight because he could rip off limbs with his hands if he feels like it.

Easily defeated?

He can rip off limbs with his hands, OK. It doesn't mean his arms are more powerful, that's my problem with what you are saying. To rip off limbs you use your physical strength and tear the limbs, that's not what Meruem does, Meruem smashes with brute force and the limbs are destroyed. If a tail smash was not enough to behead Pitou then a punch of Meruem can't do it either. He can rip off Pitou's head with his arm or his tail, he would just have to wrap his tail around her head and tear it. He is an heavy smasher, not someone like Killua or Hisoka.

 

[KingOfNight]

How do you picture this clash exactly? Since when sparks imply equality? Shoot and Youpi clashed, they were not equal you said it yourself. the Palm Strikes are not far faster than Meruem, only Netero prayers are(see here). It was not a classic exchange of moves, Meruem was taking the attacks, retaliating and moving from different angles so that Netero would create a blind spot. Once he found it Netero's palms could no more reach him.

Starting from here to the end of this chapter. They completed their strategies and that's exactly what happened. Meruem lead him to send strikes from different angles, he sliced Netero's limbs and Netero use Zero, but it was not powerful enough. It was not a clash with Meruem standing still and retaliating against 99 palms while he has only two.

A spark occurs when they make an exchange of blows at high speed. The occurrence of thousands of sparks means that they went blow for blow for thousands of times. Shoot was mostly distracting Youpi rather than clashing with him. He was eventually brought down though as Youpi was faster. The HK palm attacks start at about the exact same time as Netero finishes his prayer. Netero's fists themselves were faster than sound as stated here.

Stop this, you can't say it was not his true strength, he deployed his Aura and she felt it. That's how you show your power in this manga. Pouf didn't want him to be exposed to danger, that's how the RGs act, abilities are various too and what did Meruem do? He deployed his Aura and it was so powerful that their beliefs that Nen battles are not decided by Aura alone were shattered. As a HXH reader you should know this.

He didn't deploy his full Aura, unless you're gonna tell me that he needs to fully power up while eating fodders for some reason. You also ignored most of the reply. What she saw was no different from what Pouf and Youpi saw as the King emerged from the Rose. Which in both occasions, wasn't his full power. But if you want to believe her statement, then you should also believe Pouf's statement that Knuckle's group can take down a Meruem that is stronger than his Pre-Rose self.

Compared to the RGs Netero is fragile, he did it with his hand but he could have done it with his tail. You can't say that his hands are more powerful than his tail.

Well, if he could rip his arm I can't see why he can't rip the RGs heads. Especially since he stated he could end Pouf in one hit.

He can rip off limbs with his hands, OK. It doesn't mean his arms are more powerful, that's my problem with what you are saying. To rip off limbs you use your physical strength and tear the limbs, that's not what Meruem does, Meruem smashes with brute force and the limbs are destroyed. If a tail smash was not enough to behead Pitou then a punch of Meruem can't do it either. He can rip off Pitou's head with his arm or his tail, he would just have to wrap his tail around her head and tear it. He is an heavy smasher, not someone like Killua or Hisoka.

So you just said what I've been saying this whole time? You agree with me then? That he could rip Pitou's head with his hands?

 

[Demonspeed]

A spark occurs when they make an exchange of blows at high speed. The occurrence of thousands of sparks means that they went blow for blow for thousands of times. Shoot was mostly distracting Youpi rather than clashing with him. He was eventually brought down though as Youpi was faster. The HK palm attacks start at about the exact same time as Netero finishes his prayer. Netero's fists themselves were faster than sound as stated here.

Not thousand sparks, a myriad. Meruem certainly retaliated but he could have never pierced Netero's defense without moving a lot to different angles while dealing with the palm attacks. It was even mentioned that he was taking Netero's attacks and waiting for this. Yes, the palm attacks start immediately after the prayers but the speed of the movements are not the same. Meruem was able to block it. There are just too many way to interpret this single page, we didn't see the events, just look at how it was adapted in the anime.

He didn't deploy his full Aura, unless you're gonna tell me that he needs to fully power up while eating fodders for some reason. You also ignored most of the reply. What she saw was no different from what Pouf and Youpi saw as the King emerged from the Rose. Which in both occasions, wasn't his full power. But if you want to believe her statement, then you should also believe Pouf's statement that Knuckle's group can take down a Meruem that is stronger than his Pre-Rose self.

Deploy his Aura is not a big deal, she understood that the Aura of the soldier was added to Meruem's natural Aura, I also don't see why he would not deploy his full Aura when he was in ecstasy. Compared to when he used his Aura after eating Pouf and Youpi it is completely different, the aura surrounding him is not of the same volume.

Chapter 216

Chapter 301

Also, to measure someone's power you don't necessarily need to see him deploy his full power. Colt had not seen the RGs deploy their full Aura and knew Netero was not even close to the RGs after deploying his Aura. Netero asked him this while Colt had seen him Meruem only once and what Colt said was true. There is no reason to think that Pitou, who has superior instincts was wrong. Pouf didn't want Meruem to take risks because Nen abilities are an important factor in battles, there are things you can't predict. Even Youpi who is massively stronger than all of them would have been forced to be in Zetsu if Knuckle had decided to let Morel die and he had just saved the life of his all powerful King from an opponent who was also inferior to him.

Well, if he could rip his arm I can't see why he can't rip the RGs heads. Especially since he stated he could end Pouf in one hit.



So you just said what I've been saying this whole time? You agree with me then? That he could rip Pitou's head with his hands?

I never disagreed that he could rip her head with his hands. But I disagree when you say that's what he would do and also with your opinion that his hands are more powerful than his tail . He always beheaded people by smashing them, not by slicing their limbs like Killua or Hisoka, it's unlikely that he would do that. His powerful tail whips were not powerful enough to behead the Royal Guards, even Adult Gon's Rock was not powerful enough for this.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Gon for sure. He was the personification of the reinforcementarea of nen. Just keep in mind that Uvorgin was portayed as a Reinforcementmaster. Adult Gon would have not only wiped the floor with him, but only with his hair.

Meruem was impressive but not perfect(pre rosebomb). He also had so much selfconfidence that it would have been his grave against gon who was only there to kill.

 

[KingOfNight]

Not thousand sparks, a myriad. Meruem certainly retaliated but he could have never pierced Netero's defense without moving a lot to different angles while dealing with the palm attacks. It was even mentioned that he was taking Netero's attacks and waiting for this. Yes, the palm attacks start immediately after the prayers but the speed of the movements are not the same. Meruem was able to block it. There are just too many way to interpret this single page, we didn't see the events, just look at how it was adapted in the anime.

Myriad, countless, thousands, it doesn't matter. Also, a myriad stands for ten thousand. Yes, he attacked from different angles with immeasurable speed. What? That makes no sense at all. If the speed of the attack did not match the speed of his hands, then the HK wouldn't be that fearsome of a technique nor would Meruem attribute it's power to the fact that Netero could complete the hand motion so fast. Meruem block it because he was just that fast. You're diminishing his speed feats by saying that his opponent isn't that fast, which is ridiculous.

Deploy his Aura is not a big deal, she understood that the Aura of the soldier was added to Meruem's natural Aura, I also don't see why he would not deploy his full Aura when he was in ecstasy. Compared to when he used his Aura after eating Pouf and Youpi it is completely different, the aura surrounding him is not of the same volume.

Also, to measure someone's power you don't necessarily need to see him deploy his full power. Colt had not seen the RGs deploy their full Aura and knew Netero was not even close to the RGs after deploying his Aura. Netero asked him this while Colt had seen him Meruem only once and what Colt said was true. There is no reason to think that Pitou, who has superior instincts was wrong. Pouf didn't want Meruem to take risks because Nen abilities are an important factor in battles, there are things you can't predict. Even Youpi who is massively stronger than all of them would have been forced to be in Zetsu if Knuckle had decided to let Morel die and he had just saved the life of his all powerful King from an opponent who was also inferior to him.

I hope you're joking. The unleashing of ones full Aura is something done in extreme situation, and you're saying he would do so while eating? We have been shown times and times again that ones full Aura is only shown when he's dead serious, and the people who have witnessed that person's Aura are immediately surprised at it's true volume.

We see here that Kurapika was surprised at Uvogin's full power despite seeing him power up just a while ago.

Then we also see Razor being shocked at Gon's full power and realizing that Gon didn't deploy the entirety of his Aura originally.

Colt never said anything about the full extent of the RGs Aura. They were just that powerful. Even Netero stated that Pitou might be more powerful than he is without seeing her powering up at all. There's no reason to believe Pitou was wrong, but there are plenty of reasons to think she was simply ignorant of the unknown. Pouf and Youpi knew very well what those Nen users were capable of, and still made that laughable remark anyway. Even if Pitou saw Meruem's full power(which she didn't), the fact that the RGs can make such absurd statements just invalidates nearly anything they say regarding the King.

I never disagreed that he could rip her head with his hands. But I disagree when you say that's what he would do and also with your opinion that his hands are more powerful than his tail . He always beheaded people by smashing them, not by slicing their limbs like Killua or Hisoka, it's unlikely that he would do that. His powerful tail whips were not powerful enough to behead the Royal Guards, even Adult Gon's Rock was not powerful enough for this.

Since you're going with this whole "I don't think he would rip Gon's head off because he usually smashes heads with his tail rather than tear them off with his hands despite both methods leading to the exact same conclusion and the intent - which is to behead the oppoenent - always remains the same so there's really no reason for there to be a discussion about this", how about telling me how you imagine Meruem to go about this fight while taking into consideration that he never once threw a punch or a kick and has always either beheaded people or dismembered them.

 

[Demonspeed]

Myriad, countless, thousands, it doesn't matter. Also, a myriad stands for ten thousand. Yes, he attacked from different angles with immeasurable speed. What? That makes no sense at all. If the speed of the attack did not match the speed of his hands, then the HK wouldn't be that fearsome of a technique nor would Meruem attribute it's power to the fact that Netero could complete the hand motion so fast. Meruem block it because he was just that fast. You're diminishing his speed feats by saying that his opponent isn't that fast, which is ridiculous.

It was written in the manga that he needed to attack from different angles to corner Netero and that's what he did, there is no room for other interpretation, quite sure that I already posted links of this already. I am diminishing nothing at all. Netero's prayers and HK Palm attacks have not the same speed. Meruem said himself that he is only utterly surpassed by Netero's prayers, I have posted a link about this as well. His palm attacks are very fast but not much faster than Meruem.

I hope you're joking. The unleashing of ones full Aura is something done in extreme situation, and you're saying he would do so while eating? We have been shown times and times again that ones full Aura is only shown when he's dead serious, and the people who have witnessed that person's Aura are immediately surprised at it's true volume.

We see here that Kurapika was surprised at Uvogin's full power despite seeing him power up just a while ago.

Then we also see Razor being shocked at Gon's full power and realizing that Gon didn't deploy the entirety of his Aura originally.

Colt never said anything about the full extent of the RGs Aura. They were just that powerful. Even Netero stated that Pitou might be more powerful than he is without seeing her powering up at all. There's no reason to believe Pitou was wrong, but there are plenty of reasons to think she was simply ignorant of the unknown. Pouf and Youpi knew very well what those Nen users were capable of, and still made that laughable remark anyway. Even if Pitou saw Meruem's full power(which she didn't), the fact that the RGs can make such absurd statements just invalidates nearly anything they say regarding the King.

I don't get what I should understand from Kurapika's reaction. He said nothing at first and then he said his Aura was tremendous. We all know Gon is an exceptional genius constantly progressing on the fire, even Killua would have been unable to do this. Meruem was letting flood the power after feeling it and was ecstatic, I don't see why he would hold back, while the quantity of Aura surrounding him after being saved by his servants is less important and yet, more powerful. There are a lot of reasons for the RGS to be worried, I talked about it, they would be worried even if a weakling was escaping their surveillance to see their Kings, Meruem is stronger than them to begin with, and yet he is being protected, that's their roles, they are born for this. Saying that she didn't see his full Aura or that she was wrong it just a wishful thinking to support your argument. As you said Netero was able to notice the difference of level just by observing Pitou, Pitou has used her En and been close to Meruem several times, she is a Nen user with very good instincts. Even Colt did a proper evaluation of their powers, so far there is nobody who has ever been wrong when evaluating the power of someone else, and you are saying that Pitou is the first character to have made that mistake . They don't have to mention Full Aura or not .

Since you're going with this whole "I don't think he would rip Gon's head off because he usually smashes heads with his tail rather than tear them off with his hands despite both methods leading to the exact same conclusion and the intent - which is to behead the oppoenent - always remains the same so there's really no reason for there to be a discussion about this", how about telling me how you imagine Meruem to go about this fight while taking into consideration that he never once threw a punch or a kick and has always either beheaded people or dismembered them.

I don't know where he will kick, punch or use his tail but all he can do is fight at close combat. And I don't see him being superior to Gon, who had such a powerful Aura and is an Enhancer to boot. Plus Gon has more options with Scissors, Paper, Jajanken is a great strategic tool.

 

[KingOfNight]

It was written in the manga that he needed to attack from different angles to corner Netero and that's what he did, there is no room for other interpretation, quite sure that I already posted links of this already. I am diminishing nothing at all. Netero's prayers and HK Palm attacks have not the same speed. Meruem said himself that he is only utterly surpassed by Netero's prayers, I have posted a link about this as well. His palm attacks are very fast but not much faster than Meruem.

You first sentence is astonishingly irrelevant, so much that it's an obvious attempt to move away from the argument of their thousand sparks clash. Oh, so now you're pretending to not understand what Meruem meant and trying to waste time by feinting ignorance? Look here:

http://www.mangareader.net/207-44841-6/hunter-x-hunter/chapter-292.html

If the HK was not of the same speed as Netero's hands, it wouldn't have made it in time to stop Meruem who was only a few inches away. And if you say it's fast enough to do that, but not as fast as Netero's hands, then you're basically saying that it's not as fast as sound, but it's fast enough to go 340.29 meters per second. Once again, a pointless argument on your behalf made to waste time. Meruem was obviously referencing the gestures made by Netero himself, which is why he said "gesture" or "movement" depending on what translation you read. Also, you ignore the fact that he attributes the HK's strength to Netero's speed.

I don't get what I should understand from Kurapika's reaction. He said nothing at first and then he said his Aura was tremendous. We all know Gon is an exceptional genius constantly progressing on the fire, even Killua would have been unable to do this. Meruem was letting flood the power after feeling it and was ecstatic, I don't see why he would hold back, while the quantity of Aura surrounding him after being saved by his servants is less important and yet, more powerful. There are a lot of reasons for the RGS to be worried, I talked about it, they would be worried even if a weakling was escaping their surveillance to see their Kings, Meruem is stronger than them to begin with, and yet he is being protected, that's their roles, they are born for this. Saying that she didn't see his full Aura or that she was wrong it just a wishful thinking to support your argument. As you said Netero was able to notice the difference of level just by observing Pitou, Pitou has used her En and been close to Meruem several times, she is a Nen user with very good instincts. Even Colt did a proper evaluation of their powers, so far there is nobody who has ever been wrong when evaluating the power of someone else, and you are saying that Pitou is the first character to have made that mistake . They don't have to mention Full Aura or not .

You know very well what you should get from his reaction, but you don't want to admit it because you don't like it. So you don't have anything to argue with against the Gon example? Good. No one fully powers up in a fit of ecstasy. So you admit the RG's statements are absurd due to their overprotective nature of the King, but you still believe Pitou's statement anyway? I really have no idea what you're even trying to do anymore. Also, Pouf, Youpi and Razor were wrong when evaluating someone else's Aura, and Pitou is no different from them. Wishful thinking huh? Ironic, since you're losing the other arguments so badly that you're just wishfully holding on to this one as the only thing that keeps this debate from being settled.

I don't know where he will kick, punch or use his tail but all he can do is fight at close combat. And I don't see him being superior to Gon, who had such a powerful Aura and is an Enhancer to boot. Plus Gon has more options with Scissors, Paper, Jajanken is a great strategic tool.

So you were disagreeing with me this whole time without any opinion of your own - much less an actual argument - simply for the sake of disagreeing with me? That's just marvelous.

 

[Demonspeed]

You first sentence is astonishingly irrelevant, so much that it's an obvious attempt to move away from the argument of their thousand sparks clash. Oh, so now you're pretending to not understand what Meruem meant and trying to waste time by feinting ignorance? Look here:

http://www.mangareader.net/207-44841-6/hunter-x-hunter/chapter-292.html

If the HK was not of the same speed as Netero's hands, it wouldn't have made it in time to stop Meruem who was only a few inches away. And if you say it's fast enough to do that, but not as fast as Netero's hands, then you're basically saying that it's not as fast as sound, but it's fast enough to go 340.29 meters per second. Once again, a pointless argument on your behalf made to waste time. Meruem was obviously referencing the gestures made by Netero himself, which is why he said "gesture" or "movement" depending on what translation you read. Also, you ignore the fact that he attributes the HK's strength to Netero's speed.

How can you say it's the same speed, so far Netero hand motions are unrivaled, nobody is even close to that speed. Meruem admitted he could do nothing about it, you are saying that his speed reached that level while fighting?

I don't see why it would not mean that the moves are not faster than sound, it's not like you can calculate their speed with the panels. The hand motions are much faster than Meruem, the palm attacks are faster but not much faster, that's where the choice of angles and Netero's choices are important. With Meruem's speed he had to fight perfectly without making a single mistakes, and Meruem's attack was a frontal one, he could easily the closest palm to him and attack.

Placing both hands together is the only gesture he makes to start off his attack but, it instantly exceeds my movement speed. In combat it's meaningless behavior that should be nearly fatal, but as a weapon that has the advantage over me, it contradicts that assumption.

Yes, he is talking about Netero's hand motions, not HK palm attacks I never said the contrary. How is my first sentence irrelevant when it was the most important part of this fight? I never disagreed that they exchanged blows and that they were sparks, it just was not how you want to imagine it. Can you tell me how you imagine that exchange and how you think Meruem won then? Looks like you want to disregard the manga.

You know very well what you should get from his reaction, but you don't want to admit it because you don't like it. So you don't have anything to argue with against the Gon example? Good. No one fully powers up in a fit of ecstasy. So you admit the RG's statements are absurd due to their overprotective nature of the King, but you still believe Pitou's statement anyway? I really have no idea what you're even trying to do anymore. Also, Pouf, Youpi and Razor were wrong when evaluating someone else's Aura, and Pitou is no different from them. Wishful thinking huh? Ironic, since you're losing the other arguments so badly that you're just wishfully holding on to this one as the only thing that keeps this debate from being settled.

Kurapika said nothing and then he complimented Uvo, that's all I understand from this. I can't read the thoughts of characters, especially of someone like Kurapika, during all the fight Uvo was just dancing in his palm.

First give me a reason why no one would fully deploy his Aura while being ecstatic, it is an extreme feeling, I don't see why someone would hold back in this situation. I never ever said the RGs statements were absurd, I said they are overprotective and that they have good reasons to be like that, it's their job and a Nen battle is not decided by Aura volume alone, it's the third time I say this already. Meruem's Aura was superior to Netero and yet he took time to kill him and was on the verge of death, Youpi realized that despite his Aura Volume being 10 times bigger than all the humans he faced he was cornered and realized how deep Nen is. He would have been sealed by Potclean without his deal with Knuckle. Knov's ability was so useful Togashi was forced to break him mentally, Meleoron could have approached Meruem without problems with an ally, yes, Gon would have not been able to do something but with someone like Knov or some Manipulation users it would have been a deadly combo. Even Morel said Knukle's ability could have been useful against the King.

Pouf and Youpi being wrong is irrelevant, even without his power up Meruem was massively more powerful that all the enemies, they didn't want to take risks and didn't consider his strength could overcome good tactics and good use of Nen abilities. Meruem deploying his full Aura convinced them, which leads to the comparisons from earlier. The Aura deployed when they saved him was much smaller than the ones deployed when he ate the bodyguards. After being saved, Meruem's powers were not comparable to before and we all agreed that Meruem 2 would beat Gon with ease. I already explained why Gon's case is special and even in his situation it was because it was a game, in a true fight Razor would have killed him in no time. Meruem 1.0's level has never been wrongly assessed, they knew he became much stronger that before and yet they didn't want him to take risks. Compared to Meruem 2.0, Meruem 1.0 is a weakling. Beause they didn't properly assess the level of someone who basically became a God, you are claiming that Pitou was wrong. Because Gon, the most gifted character with his unflinching will became even more powerful during his battle with Razor, you are claiming Pitou was wrong. Notice that you only mentioned special cases.

So you were disagreeing with me this whole time without any opinion of your own - much less an actual argument - simply for the sake of disagreeing with me? That's just marvelous.

What I posted is my opinion. You will have to tell me how you can predict the precise actions of a character even when knowing his fighting style, and you said yourself that Meruem never kicked or punched someone. You were saying that Meruem would focus on the head and that he was so powerful that it would kill Gon instantly, which is a ridiculous statement, close combat is not that simple, Gon and Killua fought a lot but you can't predict what would be their first move in a fight either, that's impossible. Gon has more than enough Aura to fight and became the ultimate opponent at close range, he has a mid ranged and long ranged attack too, compared to all of this Meruem has nothing special, that's why you are trying to argue that he is much faster than Gon and that Pitou was wrong.

 

[KingOfNight]

How can you say it's the same speed, so far Netero hand motions are unrivaled, nobody is even close to that speed. Meruem admitted he could do nothing about it, you are saying that his speed reached that level while fighting?

I don't see why it would not mean that the moves are not faster than sound, it's not like you can calculate their speed with the panels. The hand motions are much faster than Meruem, the palm attacks are faster but not much faster, that's where the choice of angles and Netero's choices are important. With Meruem's speed he had to fight perfectly without making a single mistakes, and Meruem's attack was a frontal one, he could easily the closest palm to him and attack.

Placing both hands together is the only gesture he makes to start off his attack but, it instantly exceeds my movement speed. In combat it's meaningless behavior that should be nearly fatal, but as a weapon that has the advantage over me, it contradicts that assumption.

Yes, he is talking about Netero's hand motions, not HK palm attacks I never said the contrary. How is my first sentence irrelevant when it was the most important part of this fight? I never disagreed that they exchanged blows and that they were sparks, it just was not how you want to imagine it. Can you tell me how you imagine that exchange and how you think Meruem won then? Looks like you want to disregard the manga.

How can you say it's not? What evidence do you have to claim that the HK is slower? I showed you a page where Netero started praying when Meruem was practically in his face(and was dashing at an extreme speed at that), yet the HK appeared and attacked before the dashing Meruem could cross these few inches. The speed of the HK attacks are directly linked to Netero's hands, which is why Meruem stated that it would've been a suicidal technique if Netero's hands weren't that fast.

It's irrelevant because it ignores the point. Yes, Meruem carefully waited for an opening while attacking thousands of times. However, you're attempting to say that this is a feat that anyone can do and has nothing to do with speed, which is blatantly wrong. If he wasn't who he is, taking a small opening that is not even big enough to be called an opening wouldn't have been possible for someone without astronomical speed.

Kurapika said nothing and then he complimented Uvo, that's all I understand from this. I can't read the thoughts of characters, especially of someone like Kurapika, during all the fight Uvo was just dancing in his palm.

The point is, Uvo didn't release his full power on the first power up and Kurapika didn't know the full extent of it until he saw it.

First give me a reason why no one would fully deploy his Aura while being ecstatic, it is an extreme feeling, I don't see why someone would hold back in this situation. I never ever said the RGs statements were absurd, I said they are overprotective and that they have good reasons to be like that, it's their job and a Nen battle is not decided by Aura volume alone, it's the third time I say this already. Meruem's Aura was superior to Netero and yet he took time to kill him and was on the verge of death, Youpi realized that despite his Aura Volume being 10 times bigger than all the humans he faced he was cornered and realized how deep Nen is. He would have been sealed by Potclean without his deal with Knuckle. Knov's ability was so useful Togashi was forced to break him mentally, Meleoron could have approached Meruem without problems with an ally, yes, Gon would have not been able to do something but with someone like Knov or some Manipulation users it would have been a deadly combo. Even Morel said Knukle's ability could have been useful against the King.

No, you need to tell me why he would. I don't need to tell you anything, you're the one making the unreasonable claim. No one would suddenly power up to the max because they're ecstatic(I'm not even sure Meruem was that ecstatic, he was just enjoying a meal). See, about the bold part. That kind of claims loses all meaning when we look at the your overall argument. You're honestly telling me that Nen battles can't be determined by Aura alone, but you're saying that as part of an argument that deduces Gon > Meruem because Pitou implied so based on the King's Aura alone. Do you see the problem here? 'Cause you should.

Pouf and Youpi being wrong is irrelevant, even without his power up Meruem was massively more powerful that all the enemies, they didn't want to take risks and didn't consider his strength could overcome good tactics and good use of Nen abilities. Meruem deploying his full Aura convinced them, which leads to the comparisons from earlier. The Aura deployed when they saved him was much smaller than the ones deployed when he ate the bodyguards. After being saved, Meruem's powers were not comparable to before and we all agreed that Meruem 2 would beat Gon with ease. I already explained why Gon's case is special and even in his situation it was because it was a game, in a true fight Razor would have killed him in no time. Meruem 1.0's level has never been wrongly assessed, they knew he became much stronger that before and yet they didn't want him to take risks. Compared to Meruem 2.0, Meruem 1.0 is a weakling. Beause they didn't properly assess the level of someone who basically became a God, you are claiming that Pitou was wrong. Because Gon, the most gifted character with his unflinching will became even more powerful during his battle with Razor, you are claiming Pitou was wrong. Notice that you only mentioned special cases.

No, it's not irrelevant. They knew that Meruem was more powerful than he originally was(which is already far above them), and they knew what those opponents are capable of(nothing that Pre-Rose Meruem can't obliterate), and they still made an asinine statement. Gon's case is not special. And it being a game has absolutely nothing to do with anything. I'm not just saying Pitou is wrong because Pouf and Youpi didn't accurately measure the full extent of Meruem's power, It's also because they assumed he would be defeated even though it should be obvious that he would stomp the intruders even if he doesn't show them his full power.

What I posted is my opinion. You will have to tell me how you can predict the precise actions of a character even when knowing his fighting style, and you said yourself that Meruem never kicked or punched someone. You were saying that Meruem would focus on the head and that he was so powerful that it would kill Gon instantly, which is a ridiculous statement, close combat is not that simple, Gon and Killua fought a lot but you can't predict what would be their first move in a fight either, that's impossible. Gon has more than enough Aura to fight and became the ultimate opponent at close range, he has a mid ranged and long ranged attack too, compared to all of this Meruem has nothing special, that's why you are trying to argue that he is much faster than Gon and that Pitou was wrong.

I already showed that Meruem always goes for the head. Always. Unless the enemy is needed alive. You contested that claim without even having an opinion of your own on the matter(you yourself said that you don't know what he would do). In other words, you disagreed with the obvious just to disagree with it. We've established that Meurem can rip Gon's head off, that he's fast enough to do that, and that he loves doing that. So the obvious assumption is that he would. And yes, that would kill Gon instantly. People don't normally live when their head is cleaved off their shoulders. Close combat is that simple when one side is just that good. Look at Rammot Vs Killua.

 

[dzsovani]

My bet is on Meruem. In 1 vs 1 no human would be able to defeat him... Maybe someone in the Dark Continent would be able to do that. And think about it he was just one Ant king... what would happen if there would be more kings. Humanity have luck on his side but maybe on the Dark Continent there are Chimera Ant countries and each country has a king with roayal guards.

 

[Demonspeed]

How can you say it's not? What evidence do you have to claim that the HK is slower? I showed you a page where Netero started praying when Meruem was practically in his face(and was dashing at an extreme speed at that), yet the HK appeared and attacked before the dashing Meruem could cross these few inches. The speed of the HK attacks are directly linked to Netero's hands, which is why Meruem stated that it would've been a suicidal technique if Netero's hands weren't that fast.

I am repeating the same thing over and over. He said himself that only the prayers are completely outspeeding him, only the prayers. Of course HK palm attacks are fast but nobody but Netero can pray that fast, without his fast prayers, he would have died in no time. I showed you a picture of Meruem reacting and blocking a palm attack and I talked about the angle problem because Meruem's attack was just a frontal attack. Netero had the advantage over him only thanks to his fast prayers. HK is not a part of Netero's body.

It's irrelevant because it ignores the point. Yes, Meruem carefully waited for an opening while attacking thousands of times. However, you're attempting to say that this is a feat that anyone can do and has nothing to do with speed, which is blatantly wrong. If he wasn't who he is, taking a small opening that is not even big enough to be called an opening wouldn't have been possible for someone without astronomical speed.

Your assumption is completely wrong. First, how many persons can survive being smashed by the strongest Nen user to date like that? Only the Meruem and his guard, and who could actually analyze "the characteristic breath" of a character, only Meruem, he found this opening because he already knew what Netero would do at a certain moment of the clash, and waited for it. That strategy was possible only for Meruem who is a tactical genius, extremely strong, durable and fast even though in terms of Hatsu he was far behind Netero. Meruem's speed has its importance here because he doesn't give Netero the opportunity to make a mistake. Chapter 292 was so clear about this, Meruem analyzing Netero's personality, stating how difficult it is , Netero talking about how Meruem deals with the attacks from multiple angles and mentioning his frightening speed.

And 297: Meruem stating how he managed to hit him and the direct explanation linking it to chapter 292 with a reference to the needles.

Never in my posts did I say that Meruem was slow, on the contrary I said he was very fast. But you claimed that he was much faster than Gon and tried to use his clash with Netero to prove your point, saying that the HKs palm attacks are as fast as his prayers and concluding that Meruem matches this speed. And yet, you agreed that he was powerless before his prayers, it doesn't make sense right? I asked the same question and I will ask it again, you think that Meruem's speed reached this level during this fight then?

Meruem can be fast, he could be faster than Gon, but even if he was, the difference in speed would be negligible, it would not be to the point were he would be unable to retaliate and attack as you claimed.

The point is, Uvo didn't release his full power on the first power up and Kurapika didn't know the full extent of it until he saw it.

First, Kurapika never claimed to know his full power, testing if his Chain Jail could stop the physically strongest of the Troupe was one of his aims. He outsmarted Uvo all the time, provoked him so that he would attack at full power too. It doesn't mean that he didn't properly assess his level, he only said that his aura was tremendous. And he did know Uvo's full power, he just never said it, he saw Uvo fight and use his Big Bang Impact and his capabilities against the Shadow Beasts, he wanted to test his defense.

No, you need to tell me why he would. I don't need to tell you anything, you're the one making the unreasonable claim. No one would suddenly power up to the max because they're ecstatic(I'm not even sure Meruem was that ecstatic, he was just enjoying a meal).

Because feeling the power, letting it flood and sneer is what you do when you enjoy a meal? You are just trying to downplay it. He felt more powerful and he released that power, Pitou instantly understood that he had become stronger.

See, about the bold part. That kind of claims loses all meaning when we look at the your overall argument. You're honestly telling me that Nen battles can't be determined by Aura alone, but you're saying that as part of an argument that deduces Gon > Meruem because Pitou implied so based on the King's Aura alone. Do you see the problem here? 'Cause you should.

There is no problem at all. Yes, Gon Aura was stronger, is it the only factor? No, there is the Nen ability, the Nen category, the physical abilities, the Aura control, mainly for Ryu and Ken. This is much more than only the Aura volume, I took all of this into account. How can you say I am judging it only from the Aura Volume? During Gon Vs Pitou, was Aura Volume the only factor? No. She said she was right after seeing his Aura, faced him, lost easily and said she was glad to be the one to die, so, Gon was that powerful. I hope you are not trying to say that you disagree with the part in bold at least. Aura volume was not the only factor in this fight.

No, it's not irrelevant. They knew that Meruem was more powerful than he originally was(which is already far above them), and they knew what those opponents are capable of(nothing that Pre-Rose Meruem can't obliterate), and they still made an asinine statement. Gon's case is not special. And it being a game has absolutely nothing to do with anything. I'm not just saying Pitou is wrong because Pouf and Youpi didn't accurately measure the full extent of Meruem's power, It's also because they assumed he would be defeated even though it should be obvious that he would stomp the intruders even if he doesn't show them his full power.

How is Gon not special? They knew than the opponents where weak compared to them but it is not a reason to underestimate them, the outcome of the battles made it pretty obvious, again I am repeating myself again. And they didn't say Meruem would lose, you are exaggerating, they said they were unknown risks and they wanted to learn more about the enemies(link) They only stated that Meruem could have been in danger facing the unknown, which is a very good reason,(who knew what they had prepared while they were not here? How did they infiltrate the palace in the first place? There were many unknown factors) and this thought disappeared completely after witnessing his power. Even though they were so weak, they were still alive, they are not opponents to take lightly, Meruem would have died more quickly without their help.

I already showed that Meruem always goes for the head. Always. Unless the enemy is needed alive. You contested that claim without even having an opinion of your own on the matter(you yourself said that you don't know what he would do). In other words, you disagreed with the obvious just to disagree with it. We've established that Meurem can rip Gon's head off, that he's fast enough to do that, and that he loves doing that. So the obvious assumption is that he would. And yes, that would kill Gon instantly. People don't normally live when their head is cleaved off their shoulders. Close combat is that simple when one side is just that good. Look at Rammot Vs Killua.

You proved nothing, and you are the only one claiming that he is so fast that Gon would be unable to do anything, he might be fast and powerful enough to do this but you think Gon would just stand still and let him do it? You are saying that Meruem is far above Gon in close combat which is a ridiculous claim, same as your claim that Pitou was wrong. I only agreed that Meruem likes to whip his opponent, they die because of this. You can't predict exactly what Meruem would do in close combat. How weak is Hon to you? He easily beat Pitou and Zombie Pitou at close combat and you compare him to Rammot .

 

[kulugo]

My bet is on Meruem. In 1 vs 1 no human would be able to defeat him... Maybe someone in the Dark Continent would be able to do that. And think about it he was just one Ant king... what would happen if there would be more kings. Humanity have luck on his side but maybe on the Dark Continent there are Chimera Ant countries and each country has a king with roayal guards.

in another thread you said that Pitou would win against Netero. but Netero went toe to toe with Meruem, (i think he could have defeated Meruem if he finished him off quickly Meruem is a very fast learner). and Gon toyed with Pitou. so with that logic i think Gon could defeat Meruem.

 

[KingOfNight]

I am repeating the same thing over and over. He said himself that only the prayers are completely outspeeding him, only the prayers. Of course HK palm attacks are fast but nobody but Netero can pray that fast, without his fast prayers, he would have died in no time. I showed you a picture of Meruem reacting and blocking a palm attack and I talked about the angle problem because Meruem's attack was just a frontal attack. Netero had the advantage over him only thanks to his fast prayers. HK is not a part of Netero's body.

You're repeating yourself because you have nothing else to say and don't want this argument to end in my favor. I have already addressed the bold part, and already foiled it. You're also purposely ignoring the link I gave you and how HK stopped Meurem - who was dashing at an unbelievable speed - from crossing a few inches at the exact same time that Netero finished praying. But, if you insist - without any proof - that the HK is slower than Netero's hands, that's fine. It's irrelevant like I said before, as it's still faster than anyone and everything in this Manga. So you're really just wasting my time(as is the case with all your arguments below as well). Also, Meruem reacting to it is not a proof that it's slow, it shows that he's fast.

Your assumption is completely wrong. First, how many persons can survive being smashed by the strongest Nen user to date like that? Only the Meruem and his guard, and who could actually analyze "the characteristic breath" of a character, only Meruem, he found this opening because he already knew what Netero would do at a certain moment of the clash, and waited for it. That strategy was possible only for Meruem who is a tactical genius, extremely strong, durable and fast even though in terms of Hatsu he was far behind Netero. Meruem's speed has its importance here because he doesn't give Netero the opportunity to make a mistake. Chapter 292 was so clear about this, Meruem analyzing Netero's personality, stating how difficult it is , Netero talking about how Meruem deals with the attacks from multiple angles and mentioning his frightening speed.

Again, wasting time despite knowing what I'm talking about. Meruem finding an opening is a strategic feat, him GETTING that opening - which is too small to be called such - is a speed feat. It's really not that difficult to see. You're basically saying that if a guy goes through a Helicopter's rotors after seeing an opening in them, then it's not a speed feat but is an observation feat. Needless to say, that is absurd. Also, even the Wiki guys list this as a speed feat: http://hunterxhunter.wikia.com/wiki/Meruem#Abilities_.26_Powers

Never in my posts did I say that Meruem was slow, on the contrary I said he was very fast. But you claimed that he was much faster than Gon and tried to use his clash with Netero to prove your point, saying that the HKs palm attacks are as fast as his prayers and concluding that Meruem matches this speed. And yet, you agreed that he was powerless before his prayers, it doesn't make sense right? I asked the same question and I will ask it again, you think that Meruem's speed reached this level during this fight then?

It would make sense if you were paying any attention to anything I said. I never once stated that Meruem was of equal speed to the HK, I always stated that he could "keep up with it", "match it", or simply "clash with it." These terms do not indicate that he's of equal speed to it(I don't think so at least), it means that he's astonishingly fast where he would actually not be helpless against it like Pitou was. So there's your answer(which I have already posted times and times again).

Meruem can be fast, he could be faster than Gon, but even if he was, the difference in speed would be negligible, it would not be to the point were he would be unable to retaliate and attack as you claimed.

Did I not say this early in our discussion?:

Spoiler

And Gon can't dodge a hit on the head from someone that fast, and even if he dodged once, he's not gonna dodge 1000 times to all parts of his body. He could punch of kick the King as much as he wants, he's most certainly not gonna cause enough damage to defeat the King before his head is rolling on the ground.

That's why I keep telling you that you're wasting time. Because you're playing around at things I have already addressed.

First, Kurapika never claimed to know his full power, testing if his Chain Jail could stop the physically strongest of the Troupe was one of his aims. He outsmarted Uvo all the time, provoked him so that he would attack at full power too. It doesn't mean that he didn't properly assess his level, he only said that his aura was tremendous. And he did know Uvo's full power, he just never said it, he saw Uvo fight and use his Big Bang Impact and his capabilities against the Shadow Beasts, he wanted to test his defense.

Once again with the time wasting. If he had known that Uvo had that kind of power, he wouldn't have commented on it. Also, he didn't know his full power, which is why he was constantly questioning him on how serious he was.

Because feeling the power, letting it flood and sneer is what you do when you enjoy a meal? You are just trying to downplay it. He felt more powerful and he released that power, Pitou instantly understood that he had become stronger.

Perhaps I exaggerated on that part. Still, I most certainly don't see him releasing all of his power like that just because he just ate. So far, we haven't seen a single person release his full power without conscious effort. Meruem showed no effort at all, it was just the Aura that usually surrounds his body.

There is no problem at all. Yes, Gon Aura was stronger, is it the only factor? No, there is the Nen ability, the Nen category, the physical abilities, the Aura control, mainly for Ryu and Ken. This is much more than only the Aura volume, I took all of this into account. How can you say I am judging it only from the Aura Volume? During Gon Vs Pitou, was Aura Volume the only factor? No. She said she was right after seeing his Aura, faced him, lost easily and said she was glad to be the one to die, so, Gon was that powerful. I hope you are not trying to say that you disagree with the part in bold at least. Aura volume was not the only factor in this fight.

YOU took all of these things into consideration. PITOU didn't. She had no knowledge of these things. HER statement that you're constantly falling back to in order to save your obviously weak argument includes only her knowledge of the King's Aura as YOU are arguing right above this quote. You can't tell me that Aura volume is not all there is to battle while continuing to use Pitou's quote(which includes only the King's Aura) because then you would be contradicting yourself.

How is Gon not special? They knew than the opponents where weak compared to them but it is not a reason to underestimate them, the outcome of the battles made it pretty obvious, again I am repeating myself again. And they didn't say Meruem would lose, you are exaggerating, they said they were unknown risks and they wanted to learn more about the enemies(link) They only stated that Meruem could have been in danger facing the unknown, which is a very good reason,(who knew what they had prepared while they were not here? How did they infiltrate the palace in the first place? There were many unknown factors) and this thought disappeared completely after witnessing his power. Even though they were so weak, they were still alive, they are not opponents to take lightly, Meruem would have died more quickly without their help.

I don't remember anyone being special enough to suddenly have an increase in over all maximum Aura quantity while fighting. And you're repeating yourself again because you can't reply any other way, not because it's my fault. If you would admit you're wrong and stop trying to justify the RGs absurd statements, you wouldn't be in a position where you're constantly repeating yourself. And I'm not exaggerating, that's what Meruem got from their statement. Which is obviously what they meant but in a subtle way.

You proved nothing, and you are the only one claiming that he is so fast that Gon would be unable to do anything, he might be fast and powerful enough to do this but you think Gon would just stand still and let him do it? You are saying that Meruem is far above Gon in close combat which is a ridiculous claim, same as your claim that Pitou was wrong. I only agreed that Meruem likes to whip his opponent, they die because of this. You can't predict exactly what Meruem would do in close combat. How weak is Hon to you? He easily beat Pitou and Zombie Pitou at close combat and you compare him to Rammot.

Pretty sure I did. You ignoring it isn't my problem. Also, see above. I already took what Gon can do into consideration. Again, you ignoring it isn't my problem.

 

[Demonspeed]

You really don't seem to read attentitvely my posts and you also ignore many things I ask.

You're repeating yourself because you have nothing else to say and don't want this argument to end in my favor. I have already addressed the bold part, and already foiled it. You're also purposely ignoring the link I gave you and how HK stopped Meurem - who was dashing at an unbelievable speed - from crossing a few inches at the exact same time that Netero finished praying. But, if you insist - without any proof - that the HK is slower than Netero's hands, that's fine. It's irrelevant like I said before, as it's still faster than anyone and everything in this Manga. So you're really just wasting my time(as is the case with all your arguments below as well). Also, Meruem reacting to it is not a proof that it's slow, it shows that he's fast.

I talked about Meruem getting it by Netero here, twice. I don't see how I can ignore it when it's at this same moment that Meruem said that he is only helpless against the prayers. I will say it again, in bold this time. Meruem is fast, though he is fast, he failed to hit Netero here because the palms could easily be used by Netero from any angles at this moment, it was the problem for Meruem and that's why he needed to make attack Netero from different angles so that they would not be able to reach him after finding this precise moment, Netero's guard was perfect at this moment. And it was well explained in the links I posted above.

Again, wasting time despite knowing what I'm talking about. Meruem finding an opening is a strategic feat, him GETTING that opening - which is too small to be called such - is a speed feat. It's really not that difficult to see. You're basically saying that if a guy goes through a Helicopter's rotors after seeing an opening in them, then it's not a speed feat but is an observation feat. Needless to say, that is absurd. Also, even the Wiki guys list this as a speed feat: http://hunterxhunter.wikia.com/wiki/Meruem#Abilities_.26_Powers

Where did I say that getting to that opening is not a speed feat? I said that Meruem was so fast that Netero had to fight without making a mistake. So, if he makes a bad choice, Meruem hit him, simple as that. You are trying to tell me that Meruem is fast while I am saying this from the beginning.

It would make sense if you were paying any attention to anything I said. I never once stated that Meruem was of equal speed to the HK, I always stated that he could "keep up with it", "match it", or simply "clash with it." These terms do not indicate that he's of equal speed to it(I don't think so at least), it means that he's astonishingly fast where he would actually not be helpless against it like Pitou was. So there's your answer(which I have already posted times and times again).

And I never disagreed that he could clash with it, never. I disagree with the way you compare things here. That clash was not a classic one, even though he was clashing with it, if it was a clash like Youpi VS Shoot, he would have never succeeded(it's a giant statue with 99 hands!), eh clashed with it while moving from angles to angles to corner Netero, predicting his move, attack at the right moment where the palms would be unable to reach him. Meruem was as helpless as Pitou and would have failed too in the same situation. As you said yourself, he failed to hit him even though he was very close to him, in fact I talked about this first but you ignored it at this time. Netero prayers are much faster than the movements of anyone but not HK palms attacks. All the RGs can do this since they have the speed and the durability to take Netero's palm attacks. They woudl not be endlessly smashed without being able to retaliate.

All this to say that, Meruem is not massively faster than Gon as you seem to think.

Did I not say this early in our discussion?:

That's why I keep telling you that you're wasting time. Because you're playing around at things I have already addressed.

And I said that this is ridiculous because Gon is more than fast enough to react and attack Meruem, and is not a statue Meruem would get injured by his Aura attacks and his attacks are more powerful, with Ryu and Ken to protect him he has more than enough for defense. It seems you are visualizing Meruem attacking and Gon standing still only waiting for him to get hit. With this much Aura, his physical skills and his Enhancer category, Meruem has not the edge against Gon at close combat.

Once again with the time wasting. If he had known that Uvo had that kind of power, he wouldn't have commented on it. Also, he didn't know his full power, which is why he was constantly questioning him on how serious he was.

You can't actually say that he speaks only because he didn't know how powerful he was, that's just a statement. And you ignored what I said again, Kurapika saw him at full power since he saw him facing the Shadow Beasts and using Big Bang Impact, which is an attack always at full power since it is a Ko attack, he saw his defensive capabilities too. He taunted Uvo to make him use his full power, tested his abilities, tested Uvo's durability, power and the difference between him and his Enhanced punch and killed him.

Perhaps I exaggerated on that part. Still, I most certainly don't see him releasing all of his power like that just because he just ate. So far, we haven't seen a single person release his full power without conscious effort. Meruem showed no effort at all, it was just the Aura that usually surrounds his body.

What do you mean by conscious effort? When they were beginners it was the case but I don't remember anyone having difficulty to unleash his Aura. They do nothing specific and the Aura surrounds their body. It was not the Aura usually surrounding his body. I don't see how he could have deployed it if it was the case, every Nen users has Aura protecting his body since the Aura Nodes are open. They noticed he became stronger, so it was not the Aura surrounding his body naturally, it was clearly Ren. I already posted the pics to show the difference in volume when he deployed it after killing the soldier and when he ate his guards.

YOU took all of these things into consideration. PITOU didn't. She had no knowledge of these things. HER statement that you're constantly falling back to in order to save your obviously weak argument includes only her knowledge of the King's Aura as YOU are arguing right above this quote. You can't tell me that Aura volume is not all there is to battle while continuing to use Pitou's quote(which includes only the King's Aura) because then you would be contradicting yourself.

Pitou did. The Aura is important yes, but without Gon physical abilities reaching that level, he would have not been able to dodge Pitou's attacks, not been able to surpass her at close combat, it doesn't even need to be stated. Unless you think, Kid Gon could have done this? This is not only Gon's Aura who strengthened. He reached a form and a level that should have been accessible to him only after insane years of training, Gon was at his absolute peak.

I don't remember anyone being special enough to suddenly have an increase in over all maximum Aura quantity while fighting.

See? Gon is special.

And you're repeating yourself again because you can't reply any other way, not because it's my fault. If you would admit you're wrong and stop trying to justify the RGs absurd statements, you wouldn't be in a position where you're constantly repeating yourself. And I'm not exaggerating, that's what Meruem got from their statement. Which is obviously what they meant but in a subtle way.

Are you Togashi? How are you saying that's what they meant? The words are clear. "But we won't be by your side, and there's no telling what enemies might be here, how does it mean" Majesty, you will lose?" . The situation was uncertain and the actions of the enemies were unknown, it's quite natural to try to not put him in danger, that's the job of a Royal Guard. Meruem's answer was "Do you think that there is even a million chance that I would be defeated by an insurgent". "Even a million chance, that's the important part, it relates to the risks. And despite the RGs being massively more powerful that the enemies they faced they didn't succeed to kill them and Meruem almost died, this is more tan enough to prove that Aura volume is not the only factor, Pouf and Youpi understood it during their battles. It's just Pouf being prudent. You are exaggerating.

Hopefully you will answer to the questions I asked several times already.

 

[KingOfNight]

I talked about Meruem getting it by Netero here, twice. I don't see how I can ignore it when it's at this same moment that Meruem said that he is only helpless against the prayers. I will say it again, in bold this time. Meruem is fast, though he is fast, he failed to hit Netero here because the palms could easily be used by Netero from any angles at this moment, it was the problem for Meruem and that's why he needed to make attack Netero from different angles so that they would not be able to reach him after finding this precise moment, Netero's guard was perfect at this moment. And it was well explained in the links I posted above.

What you're saying right here doesn't, in anyway, negate the fact that it's exceptionally fast. I have no idea why you bothered to right all of this even though it doesn't relate in any sense to our main discussion, which is the HK interrupting a dashing Meruem. This isn't about why he failed to hit Netero, nor the fact that this movement was within the available patterns that could be performed by the HK, it's about how fast the HK could move. Again, what you said in the entire bold part is completely irrelevant to our discussion.

Where did I say that getting to that opening is not a speed feat? I said that Meruem was so fast that Netero had to fight without making a mistake. So, if he makes a bad choice, Meruem hit him, simple as that. You are trying to tell me that Meruem is fast while I am saying this from the beginning.

Right here:

Spoiler

This is not a speed feat, the speed of Netero's hand motions and HK's attacks are unrivaled. It's because Netero made mistake that Meruem could hit him, then he managed to predict his future movements and slice his right arm. Attacking when you see an opening is not a speed feat.

You also exclaimed that the movement of the HK are unrivaled, which is contradictory, as you're currently downplaying it's speed. And again, Netero DIDN'T make a mistake. He assumed that the only way Meruem could get to him was if he made a mistake, but he was wrong, as Meruem saw through all of HK's movements and found an opening that's far too insignificant to called a habit or a bias, much less a mistake. If you acknowledge that this is a speed feat, and that it's a better feat than Gon dodging Pitou(yes, you said that it was NOT a better feat earlier), then that's one part of the discussion we can end.

And I never disagreed that he could clash with it, never. I disagree with the way you compare things here. That clash was not a classic one, even though he was clashing with it, if it was a clash like Youpi VS Shoot, he would have never succeeded(it's a giant statue with 99 hands!), eh clashed with it while moving from angles to angles to corner Netero, predicting his move, attack at the right moment where the palms would be unable to reach him. Meruem was as helpless as Pitou and would have failed too in the same situation. As you said yourself, he failed to hit him even though he was very close to him, in fact I talked about this first but you ignored it at this time. Netero prayers are much faster than the movements of anyone but not HK palms attacks. All the RGs can do this since they have the speed and the durability to take Netero's palm attacks. They woudl not be endlessly smashed without being able to retaliate.

The RGs would not be able to do this for the simple reason of them being too slow. Even if they were find the opening(which I doubt they could), they would never get it because they are too slow. Netero was shocked at Meruem's speed and realized that even the smallest of mistakes is not allowed, but seemed more than comfortable following Pitou's movement and even taunting her. And that's before his senses were spiked to their peak like they were against Meruem.

And I said that this is ridiculous because Gon is more than fast enough to react and attack Meruem, and is not a statue Meruem would get injured by his Aura attacks and his attacks are more powerful, with Ryu and Ken to protect him he has more than enough for defense. It seems you are visualizing Meruem attacking and Gon standing still only waiting for him to get hit. With this much Aura, his physical skills and his Enhancer category, Meruem has not the edge against Gon at close combat.

Like I said, Meruem would receive no significant damage from Gon's attacks. If a Ko or a Gyo kick couldn't lethally wound Pitou(she was still able to put up her guard for Gon's next attack), they will do no significant damage to Meruem at all. Not to mention that using them means weakening the Aura around the rest of his body where a tail slap alone might be enough to kill Gon. Jajanken is his only means of winning, which is not gonna happen as preparing for it is a suicide. Fact of the matter is, Meruem has much better speed feats, has enough strength to rip Gon's head, and enough durability to shrug most of Gon's attacks. There's not a lot of ways to see how this battle is going when one side can attack a thousand times and needs only one opening to end the battle(and that's a guy that could find an opening in the HK).

You can't actually say that he speaks only because he didn't know how powerful he was, that's just a statement. And you ignored what I said again, Kurapika saw him at full power since he saw him facing the Shadow Beasts and using Big Bang Impact, which is an attack always at full power since it is a Ko attack, he saw his defensive capabilities too. He taunted Uvo to make him use his full power, tested his abilities, tested Uvo's durability, power and the difference between him and his Enhanced punch and killed him.

Fine. I'm certainly not gonna waste anymore time trying to convince you of the obvious.

What do you mean by conscious effort? When they were beginners it was the case but I don't remember anyone having difficulty to unleash his Aura. They do nothing specific and the Aura surrounds their body. It was not the Aura usually surrounding his body. I don't see how he could have deployed it if it was the case, every Nen users has Aura protecting his body since the Aura Nodes are open. They noticed he became stronger, so it was not the Aura surrounding his body naturally, it was clearly Ren. I already posted the pics to show the difference in volume when he deployed it after killing the soldier and when he ate his guards.[/B]

I mean actually trying, like he did in front of Pouf and Youpi or like how Gon did against Razor. Or like Netero did here. And this guy is the furthest thing from a beginner. All we see was him talking about the delicious meal, he wasn't particularity showing off to anyone as Pitou observed him without his knowledge. Again, Ren is never used without some conscious effort. After eating the soldier, and after eating the guards, he wasn't putting any effort behind his Nen.

Pitou did. The Aura is important yes, but without Gon physical abilities reaching that level, he would have not been able to dodge Pitou's attacks, not been able to surpass her at close combat, it doesn't even need to be stated. Unless you think, Kid Gon could have done this? This is not only Gon's Aura who strengthened. He reached a form and a level that should have been accessible to him only after insane years of training, Gon was at his absolute peak.

I've clearly emphasized that Pitou knows only the KING'S Aura in my previous quote. Yet, you deviate meaninglessly and focus on Gon who I never included in my quote. It's very obvious that you're purposely ignoring the part that's difficult to answer to. It doesn't matter if she knew what Gon can do, she knew nothing of the King's abilities.

See? Gon is special.

Glad we established that you were wrong/

Are you Togashi? How are you saying that's what they meant? The words are clear. "But we won't be by your side, and there's no telling what enemies might be here, how does it mean" Majesty, you will lose?" . The situation was uncertain and the actions of the enemies were unknown, it's quite natural to try to not put him in danger, that's the job of a Royal Guard. Meruem's answer was "Do you think that there is even a million chance that I would be defeated by an insurgent". "Even a million chance, that's the important part, it relates to the risks. And despite the RGs being massively more powerful that the enemies they faced they didn't succeed to kill them and Meruem almost died, this is more tan enough to prove that Aura volume is not the only factor, Pouf and Youpi understood it during their battles. It's just Pouf being prudent. You are exaggerating.

That quote is indeed clear. The fact that Meruem replied like that means that what he understood from Pouf's statement was that he could possibly lose. Pouf implied that there was chance he would lose, it's painfully obvious. It doesn't relate to risks, it relates to defeat. I seriously hoe you're not gonna keep wasting my time dancing around this ridiculously obvious statement.

 

[Demonspeed]

What you're saying right here doesn't, in anyway, negate the fact that it's exceptionally fast. I have no idea why you bothered to right all of this even though it doesn't relate in any sense to our main discussion, which is the HK interrupting a dashing Meruem. This isn't about why he failed to hit Netero, nor the fact that this movement was within the available patterns that could be performed by the HK, it's about how fast the HK could move. Again, what you said in the entire bold part is completely irrelevant to our discussion.

Yes, Meruem is exceptionally fast can we move on now? I never said he was not.

He came before Netero, ready to attack, Netero prayed and one of his palm hit him. I said that HK palm attacks are faster than Meruem but not to the point of blitzing him, and I posted a link with Meruem blocking it to prove my point.

Right here:

Attacking when you see an opening is not a speed feat. Succeed to attack before the opponent can protect himself, when you see the opening IS the speed feat.

You also exclaimed that the movement of the HK are unrivaled, which is contradictory, as you're currently downplaying it's speed. And again, Netero DIDN'T make a mistake. He assumed that the only way Meruem could get to him was if he made a mistake, but he was wrong, as Meruem saw through all of HK's movements and found an opening that's far too insignificant to called a habit or a bias, much less a mistake. If you acknowledge that this is a speed feat, and that it's a better feat than Gon dodging Pitou(yes, you said that it was NOT a better feat earlier), then that's one part of the discussion we can end.

I did say the speed of his hand motions and HK palm attacks and talked about the opening Meruem found to reach him. Why did he fail to hit Netero when he was so close to him? He can do nothing at all against the prayers but it is not the case for the palm attacks. He said it himself. That palm attack, he could have blocked it, he blocked one in the manga but he would have still been blasted.

The RGs would not be able to do this for the simple reason of them being too slow. Even if they were find the opening(which I doubt they could), they would never get it because they are too slow. Netero was shocked at Meruem's speed and realized that even the smallest of mistakes is not allowed, but seemed more than comfortable following Pitou's movement and even taunting her. And that's before his senses were spiked to their peak like they were against Meruem.

Too slow? What is your basis for this? Excluding the prayers they are faster than Netero. Had they been able to find an opening, they would have hit him. Meruem's speed is not the bare minimum to hit him.

Like I said, Meruem would receive no significant damage from Gon's attacks. If a Ko or a Gyo kick couldn't lethally wound Pitou(she was still able to put up her guard for Gon's next attack), they will do no significant damage to Meruem at all. Not to mention that using them means weakening the Aura around the rest of his body where a tail slap alone might be enough to kill Gon. Jajanken is his only means of winning, which is not gonna happen as preparing for it is a suicide. Fact of the matter is, Meruem has much better speed feats, has enough strength to rip Gon's head, and enough durability to shrug most of Gon's attacks. There's not a lot of ways to see how this battle is going when one side can attack a thousand times and needs only one opening to end the battle(and that's a guy that could find an opening in the HK).

No significant damage because she was not lethally wounded? She was hit by a kick with Gyo, she was badly hurt, it was not lethal but she was badly hurt, to the point she could not move for several seconds. It would hurt him, not to the same level as Pitou but it would hurt him, Gon had more than enough Aura for this. Weakening the Aura around his body doesn't mean that his head can't have enough Aura to protect him, or that he can't react and block it, or transfer his Aura to his head, he can do this in no time, even when walking his Aura was overflowing, it's not as if Meruem would obligatorily attack the head in such a situation, the first attack of Gon doesn't have to be a Gyo kick either. Not only is his Aura more powerful no matter how you look at it, even considering it was the react same volume, Gon being an Enhancer changes everything. How is Jajanken a suicidal move? How it can be used strategically was well explained already. Also he managed to stab Zombie Pitou with his sliced left arm and his final Rock was even more powerful.

I mean actually trying, like he did in front of Pouf and Youpi or like how Gon did against Razor. Or like Netero did here. And this guy is the furthest thing from a beginner. All we see was him talking about the delicious meal, he wasn't particularity showing off to anyone as Pitou observed him without his knowledge. Again, Ren is never used without some conscious effort. After eating the soldier, and after eating the guards, he wasn't putting any effort behind his Nen.

I don't see the difference, conscious effort doesn't require move. When he used Ren before Pouf and Youpi he was even more static than when he ate the soldier. He ate the soldier, felt his Aura growing and released it, simple as that. Same when he showed it to Pouf and Youpi, how can you notice the difference in "effort"?

I've clearly emphasized that Pitou knows only the KING'S Aura in my previous quote. Yet, you deviate meaninglessly and focus on Gon who I never included in my quote. It's very obvious that you're purposely ignoring the part that's difficult to answer to. It doesn't matter if she knew what Gon can do, she knew nothing of the King's abilities.

Huh? I am not deviating, you are. You are not even answering my questions. The fact is that Gon didn't win against Pitou because of his Aura alone, this is the absolute truth. She knew Meruem's abilities and that's why she said she was right, when Gon transformed, not only his Aura matured, everything matured, he reached the level he would have at his peak. His Aura was powerful enough to beat the King means that his physical abilities were at this level too and it was made clear during his confrontation with Pitou.

Glad we established that you were wrong/

If you agree that Gon is special then you are the one who is wrong.

That quote is indeed clear. The fact that Meruem replied like that means that what he understood from Pouf's statement was that he could possibly lose. Pouf implied that there was chance he would lose, it's painfully obvious. It doesn't relate to risks, it relates to defeat. I seriously hoe you're not gonna keep wasting my time dancing around this ridiculously obvious statement.

Pouf said that there was a possibility that he would lose, yes, that's all he said. He didn't say that Meruem would lose as you claimed, but that it was possible, the risk of defeat. And when you think about it, Meruem had already lost.

 

[kkck]

I am not sure of how to go about this. When we saw gon he was clearly and overwhelmingly stronger and faster than pitou. In terms of sheer speed it did not seem like gon could match netero although it was also a fight where the case can be made that gon did not necessarily go all out (although he did not quite hold back either). Neither pitou or gon had the fights for us to be able to put the whole thing in context.

Anyways, what is interesting is that at the point adult gon appeared he was without the doubt the one individual with the strongest nen around. What is surprising is that pitou seemed to admit that gon's nen could match meruem which at that point was something that the royals or netero fell short of (although this was not an issue for netero as he could compensate with his terrifying skill). Meruem was nowhere near a match for netero for speed either so the comparison does not help much either. Anyways, gon was superior to pitou (and the stronger dead pitou) by quite a bit and if his nen volume does match or even surpass meruem it is probable that he would be able to fight on meruem's terms. He probably falls overwhelmingly short of netero's speed but in turn is probably able to dish out the damage to hurt the king and presumably even defend from the king's attacks, something which netero could not quite do. For the sake of context I am going to go for adult gon here. As a potential match for meruem's nen he should be able to fight toe to toe with him in the regard that he can actually survive a hit from the king thanks to his sheer nen volume that matches him and in turn deal similar damage to meruem. Its not a fight meruem can win the same way he did against netero who only needed 2 hits to be basically defeated before using zero. I guess his komugi induced level of strategy foreshadowing could be useful although it might be the case that since he is fighting toe to toe his strategic foreshadowing won't work quite as well as against netero.

 

[gon381]

You are forgetting the fact that chimera ants come from the dark continent, where don freeccs obviously related to gon has roamed for 300 years exploring almost everything. If he can live there for 300 years and im pretty sure chimera ants are not the strongest creatures out there as chimera ants were classified as a lvl-B threat while the 5 calamities were classified lvl-A threat then gon must be able to as well thus he must be able after a shitton of training to easily beat meruem post rose. If youre just talking about the raged gon then theres no chance.

 

[shionoro]

I doubt very much that Don Freeks could beat meruem, not even close post rose.
Don Freeks can survive the dark continent and did so a long time and was able (probably) to find the item which grants eternal life.
All of thsoe feets where archieved by other people as well.
Beyond could survive it, so could Netero and his team.
The herb to grant eternal life was found by an expedition, too, they just didnt make it back.

Don Freeks is definitely hell of a badass to survive on the DC for so long and he is probably very strong for human standarts, but i do doubt that he could beat netero in a 1n1, for example, leave alone meruem post rose.

Super Gon couldnt beat post rose meruem either, in my opinion.
His transformation was not stable, he was in emotional distress so even pitou was able to take his arm when he didnt pay attention.
Pitou's fear was that Super gon cuold HURT meruem with his 'rock', which i think he could.

Like, if Super Gon and Netero teamed up, then Netero could probably hold Meruem down and Super Gon would do the damage, that is a set up i can imagine could defeat pre rose meruem.

But post rose, there is no single being in the HxH world we have encountered yet that can even hope to beat him in a 1n1 battle.

We might encounter such beings on the DC, the calamities sound terrifying, but it is clear to me that no matter how much gon trains to archieve his top potential, he has no shot at defeating meruem.

I am not even sure whether super rose could defeat old netero.

 

[Kanmuru]

You are forgetting the fact that chimera ants come from the dark continent, where don freeccs obviously related to gon has roamed for 300 years exploring almost everything. If he can live there for 300 years and im pretty sure chimera ants are not the strongest creatures out there as chimera ants were classified as a lvl-B threat while the 5 calamities were classified lvl-A threat then gon must be able to as well thus he must be able after a shitton of training to easily beat meruem post rose. If youre just talking about the raged gon then theres no chance.

Chimera ants are lvl-b threat because you can wipe them out with a simple nuclear bomb. I'ts not like an uncontrollable diasease or something that can exterminate the human race.
Combat wise we are not sure if gon will achieve the level of his transformation by training. But if he does (I don't think so) even that overpowered state wasn't enough to 1vs1 post-rose meruem