Semifinal Gildarts Clive vs Natsu Dragneel

[Ebony Maw]

Destroy Natsus spells? Nah man, they are too big for him to destroy. Not to mention that disassembly wouldn't work as efficiently on fire as it does on a solid attack like Bluenotes black hole, cutting fire doesn't do much for you.

Not saying he'll disassemble/crash all of his spells but he did disassemble his roar on Tenrou and it seemed to stop the spell dead in it's tracks.

 

[Hermit]

@Emperor Spriggan How did you even know I was lurking?

Also I would say Natsu beats Gildarts this in a fairly difficult battle as Natsu has feats to help place his strength while Gildarts is just on hype prior to a giant jump in Natsu's strength level

I see all and everything
You made your first comment on MH
I look forward to seeing more of you in the future

 

[The President]

Not saying he'll disassemble/crash all of his spells but he did disassemble his roar on Tenrou and it seemed to stop the spell dead in it's tracks.

The difference is that fire can continue flowing whereas attacks like Bluenotes dark hole break down with damage. Gildarts being able to section off a tiny area of Natsus enormous roar won't change anything. If he comes back and shows disassembly with an AoE of Natsus roars then thats a different story, but for now I don't even see evidence that he could completely negate Natsus regular roar, let alone his FDK one.

 

[Ebony Maw]

The difference is that fire can continue flowing whereas attacks like Bluenotes dark hole break down with damage. Gildarts being able to section off a tiny area of Natsus enormous roar won't change anything. If he comes back and shows disassembly with an AoE of Natsus roars then thats a different story, but for now I don't even see evidence that he could completely negate Natsus regular roar, let alone his FDK one.

Ah fair do's, I thought you meant that the fire would just continue, I didn't realize you meant that the AoE wouldn't cover his roar. Honestly, I'm not sure either way, I feel that he could do that based on hype but like you said he hasn't done it yet.

 

[Crimson Ice]

I never said G>B. I don't know what Crimson Ice is reading.

In fact, I said B>G.


But I would appreciate it if anybody can tell me where I said G>B.








Jellal's Sema is also before the timeskip. A lot of things are before the timeskip.


But we can still speculate about all of them based on Holt's words.


What Holt meant is that we cannot speculate that Gray has Devil Force or Gajeel has Dragon Force.


But powerscaling Gildartz is acceptable.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 24, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 24, 2016 ---

When the hell did I say Gajeel stomps Bradman in DF????


Don't put words into my mouth.




I do claim Bradman is stronger than Gajeel.

Do you?


Gajeel was practically knocking at Death's Door 2 chapters ago.





Are you trying to tell me that Gajeel is stronger than Bradman?


I WANT YOU to explain that for me.

You clearly can't read the context I was typing in so I'll put in simpler terms. How in earth is DF Gajeel weaker than Bradman when he stomped him without using any spells. And don't say he nearly cleared Gajeel, Bradman only nearly killed Gajeel because he was out of DF and took him by surprise.

 

[Brandish μ]

Gildarts has always been stronger than Natsu pre-skip, but so has Makarov and Jura. Neither of those guys are above Natsu now. So I don't really get caught up with the preskip portrayal too much. Hiro has to choose whether he's going to stick with Gildarts' relative position or not when he returns.

On feats though they just come up too short against Natsu. I'd say Base Natsu will defeat Gildarts, not sure on the difficulty. FDKM wouldn't be required, though it would oneshot. DF would be too much of an overkill.

 

[Woodenstool]

Gildarts has always been stronger than Natsu pre-skip, but so has Makarov and Jura. Neither of those guys are above Natsu now. So I don't really get caught up with the preskip portrayal too much. Hiro has to choose whether he's going to stick with Gildarts' relative position or not when he returns.

On feats though they just come up too short against Natsu. I'd say Base Natsu will defeat Gildarts, not sure on the difficulty. FDKM wouldn't be required, though it would oneshot. DF would be too much of an overkill.

How can Natsu get dropped by Gildarts pre timeskip like a fly and all of sudden completely demolish him in 10months of training?

Gildarts casual punch destroyed a mountain. Natsu roar isn't on that level. That means if Gildarts can use crash to destroy a mountain, it means he can destroy Natsus spells with crash even now.

So quit putting Natsu on this level like he's light years stronger. Is gray Stronger than Gildarts since Hiro showed us consistently he wants them equal?

Gildarts leveled a mountain, and still offered Natsu to fight him. And Natsu was scared sh*tless. Sure Natsu melted the GMG, but he was showing off. Gildarts tripped and cracked an entire town.

Igneels flames were enough to burn Zerefs spells. That tells me that Natsu can burn crash only with Igneels flames.

Gildarts is just too powerful and too fast for Natsu. Gildart has healed, he doesn't have those bandages and has replaced the wooden leg for a metal leg. His ability to cancel out spells and immense strength would blitz Natsu. And yes Gildarts would blitz August, if he's incapable of reacting to Brandish then what makes you think he block Glidarts mountain busting lunches moving at insane speeds?

You can bring up Gildarts got surprised by Natsu in Tenro which is incorrect. After the explosion, Gildarts blocked the attack, that is another feat show casing his speed.

And answer my questions above.

 

[Nemispelled]

You clearly can't read the context I was typing in so I'll put in simpler terms. How in earth is DF Gajeel weaker than Bradman when he stomped him without using any spells. And don't say he nearly cleared Gajeel, Bradman only nearly killed Gajeel because he was out of DF and took him by surprise.

So what?

Gajeel couldn't activate DF at will. He needed to eat Bradman's MBP to turn DF.

So it's his fault that his DF ran out.

And taking him by surprise is fair game. Gajeel shouldn't have let his guard down.



DF Gajeel is weaker than Bradman.

Gajeel defeated Bradman's physical form, but Bradman opened a portal to kill/defeat Gajeel.



The fact is that DF Gajeel definitely did not stomp Bradman.


To say that Gajeel stomped on Bradman when Gajeel was supposed to be killed is just plain absurd.

 

[Woodenstool]

Here's Gildarts melting Natsu.

http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/417/5
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/417/10
Gildarts pushing Natsu extremely far with one arm without moving. And notice how he easily dodges his attacks without effort.

And BTW, notice how Natsu eye is bleeding. Not even Mard Geer could do that with one punch.

 

[Nemispelled]

Gildarts has always been stronger than Natsu pre-skip, but so has Makarov and Jura. Neither of those guys are above Natsu now. So I don't really get caught up with the preskip portrayal too much. Hiro has to choose whether he's going to stick with Gildarts' relative position or not when he returns.

On feats though they just come up too short against Natsu. I'd say Base Natsu will defeat Gildarts, not sure on the difficulty. FDKM wouldn't be required, though it would oneshot. DF would be too much of an overkill.

I beg to differ.... I think that is some misleading information....


I highly doubt that Makarov or Jura could ever defeat Tartaros Natsu in 1 punch.

Gildartz did.


In fact, Makarov and Jura were only stronger than Natsu up until Tenrou Arc.


After Natsu unlocked Second Origin, he was already stronger than Makarov and Jura.


Natsu fared pretty well against Future Rogue who is way stronger than Makarov and Jura.


And by the time we got to Tartaros Arc, Natsu was out of their league.


Makarov is getting old and rusty while Jura has likely reached his prime.

 

[Brandish μ]

How can Natsu get dropped by Gildarts pre timeskip like a fly and all of sudden completely demolish him in 10months of training?

This is Hiro's power inflation, like it or not.

Gildarts casual punch destroyed a mountain. Natsu roar isn't on that level. That means if Gildarts can use crash to destroy a mountain, it means he can destroy Natsus spells with crash even now.

It wasn't a casual punch, but it wasn't a named spell either. Breaking a mountain is something Demolishing strike could achieve.

Gildart's magic is conducive for cracking rock/buildings. And tbh, it doesn't matter a great deal that he can trip and crack a town. What matters most is how he performs in fights... and his best feat is using Empyrean which can take out Bluenote-tiers.

So quit putting Natsu on this level like he's light years stronger. Is gray Stronger than Gildarts since Hiro showed us consistently he wants them equal?

Gildarts leveled a mountain, and still offered Natsu to fight him. And Natsu was scared sh*tless. Sure Natsu melted the GMG, but he was showing off. Gildarts tripped and cracked an entire town.

Gray's probably stronger than Gildarts. Feats wise, I'd probably still give it to Gildarts. My opinion is that Gray is stronger.

And no, Gray and Natsu aren't equal. The burden of proof is on Gray to be equal to Natsu. The portrayal for Gray is about the same as Gajeel when comparing to Natsu, and it matters nothing until they prove they are as strong as Natsu.

Do you think pre-skip Gildarts can scare current Natsu like he did on Tenrou? Brandish would scare Natsu now more than X791 Gildarts could. Natsu has stood in front of August without falling to his knees...

Igneels flames were enough to burn Zerefs spells. That tells me that Natsu can burn crash only with Igneels flames.

Come on, we can't compare Zeref to Gildarts.

Gildarts is just too powerful and too fast for Natsu. Gildart has healed, he doesn't have those bandages and has replaced the wooden leg for a metal leg. His ability to cancel out spells and immense strength would blitz Natsu. And yes Gildarts would blitz August, if he's incapable of reacting to Brandish then what makes you think he block Glidarts mountain busting lunches moving at insane speeds?

You can bring up Gildarts got surprised by Natsu in Tenro which is incorrect. After the explosion, Gildarts blocked the attack, that is another feat show casing his speed.

And answer my questions above.

The way you're envisioning a fight between Gildarts and Natsu is kind of like the actual fight between Bluenote and Gildarts. Base Natsu has better combat feats than Gildarts, that is a fact. So if Natsu still has FDKM to up the ante, I give Gildarts zero chance.

I beg to differ.... I think that is some misleading information....


I highly doubt that Makarov or Jura could ever defeat Tartaros Natsu in 1 punch.

Gildartz did.

Are you talking about that uppercut to the sky? If you are, I'm pretty sure that's a comedic relief panel.

In fact, Makarov and Jura were only stronger than Natsu up until Tenrou Arc.


After Natsu unlocked Second Origin, he was already stronger than Makarov and Jura.

I would like to know why GMG Natsu > Makarov/GMG Jura... that would put GMG Natsu >= GMG Laxus.

Natsu would lose mid diff or less against either of those guys. Second Origin is equivalent to 3 months of FT training. It didn't boost them enough to outfight

 

[Arjuna]

The main problem i think is people are judging Gildarts based on past feats which i think would have been logical in the past but in the current arc this does not matter.Even casual spells from Natsu are above Gildarts's.

 

[AcnoZone711]

After I read all the discussions, I'm voting for GILDARTZ .... the people who sided with gildartz pretty much convinced me

 

[Woodenstool]

This is Hiro's power inflation, like it or not.



It wasn't a casual punch, but it wasn't a named spell either. Breaking a mountain is something Demolishing strike could achieve.

Gildart's magic is conducive for cracking rock/buildings. And tbh, it doesn't matter a great deal that he can trip and crack a town. What matters most is how he performs in fights... and his best feat is using Empyrean which can take out Bluenote-tiers.



Gray's probably stronger than Gildarts. Feats wise, I'd probably still give it to Gildarts. My opinion is that Gray is stronger.

And no, Gray and Natsu aren't equal. The burden of proof is on Gray to be equal to Natsu. The portrayal for Gray is about the same as Gajeel when comparing to Natsu, and it matters nothing until they prove they are as strong as Natsu.

Do you think pre-skip Gildarts can scare current Natsu like he did on Tenrou? Brandish would scare Natsu now more than X791 Gildarts could. Natsu has stood in front of August without falling to his knees...



Come on, we can't compare Zeref to Gildarts.



The way you're envisioning a fight between Gildarts and Natsu is kind of like the actual fight between Bluenote and Gildarts. Base Natsu has better combat feats than Gildarts, that is a fact. So if Natsu still has FDKM to up the ante, I give Gildarts zero chance.



Are you talking about that uppercut to the sky? If you are, I'm pretty sure that's a comedic relief panel.



I would like to know why GMG Natsu > Makarov/GMG Jura... that would put GMG Natsu >= GMG Laxus.

Natsu would lose mid diff or less against either of those guys. Second Origin is equivalent to 3 months of FT training. It didn't boost them enough to outfight

Gildarts magic isnt just meant for rocks when he cleary destroyed a black hole and Natsus roar.

This is Hiro's power inflation, like it or not.



It wasn't a casual punch, but it wasn't a named spell either. Breaking a mountain is something Demolishing strike could achieve.

Gildart's magic is conducive for cracking rock/buildings. And tbh, it doesn't matter a great deal that he can trip and crack a town. What matters most is how he performs in fights... and his best feat is using Empyrean which can take out Bluenote-tiers.



Gray's probably stronger than Gildarts. Feats wise, I'd probably still give it to Gildarts. My opinion is that Gray is stronger.

And no, Gray and Natsu aren't equal. The burden of proof is on Gray to be equal to Natsu. The portrayal for Gray is about the same as Gajeel when comparing to Natsu, and it matters nothing until they prove they are as strong as Natsu.

Do you think pre-skip Gildarts can scare current Natsu like he did on Tenrou? Brandish would scare Natsu now more than X791 Gildarts could. Natsu has stood in front of August without falling to his knees...



Come on, we can't compare Zeref to Gildarts.



The way you're envisioning a fight between Gildarts and Natsu is kind of like the actual fight between Bluenote and Gildarts. Base Natsu has better combat feats than Gildarts, that is a fact. So if Natsu still has FDKM to up the ante, I give Gildarts zero chance.



Are you talking about that uppercut to the sky? If you are, I'm pretty sure that's a comedic relief panel.



I would like to know why GMG Natsu > Makarov/GMG Jura... that would put GMG Natsu >= GMG Laxus.

Natsu would lose mid diff or less against either of those guys. Second Origin is equivalent to 3 months of FT training. It didn't boost them enough to outfight

This is Hiro's power inflation, like it or not.



It wasn't a casual punch, but it wasn't a named spell either. Breaking a mountain is something Demolishing strike could achieve.

Gildart's magic is conducive for cracking rock/buildings. And tbh, it doesn't matter a great deal that he can trip and crack a town. What matters most is how he performs in fights... and his best feat is using Empyrean which can take out Bluenote-tiers.



Gray's probably stronger than Gildarts. Feats wise, I'd probably still give it to Gildarts. My opinion is that Gray is stronger.

And no, Gray and Natsu aren't equal. The burden of proof is on Gray to be equal to Natsu. The portrayal for Gray is about the same as Gajeel when comparing to Natsu, and it matters nothing until they prove they are as strong as Natsu.

Do you think pre-skip Gildarts can scare current Natsu like he did on Tenrou? Brandish would scare Natsu now more than X791 Gildarts could. Natsu has stood in front of August without falling to his knees...



Come on, we can't compare Zeref to Gildarts.



The way you're envisioning a fight between Gildarts and Natsu is kind of like the actual fight between Bluenote and Gildarts. Base Natsu has better combat feats than Gildarts, that is a fact. So if Natsu still has FDKM to up the ante, I give Gildarts zero chance.



Are you talking about that uppercut to the sky? If you are, I'm pretty sure that's a comedic relief panel.



I would like to know why GMG Natsu > Makarov/GMG Jura... that would put GMG Natsu >= GMG Laxus.

Natsu would lose mid diff or less against either of those guys. Second Origin is equivalent to 3 months of FT training. It didn't boost them enough to outfight

That wasn't a good response to my question but whatever.

Natsu attacks have gotten bigger but that change the fact that Gildarts used crash to destroy a mountain? No. You're a mod and you should know that were comparing Natsu and Gildarts.

 

[Brandish μ]

Gildarts magic isnt just meant for rocks when he cleary destroyed a black hole and Natsus roar.

My point was that crash is better at cracking mountains that a lot of magic ie conducive. Natsu's able to casually melt the GMG staduim, which is something Gildarts couldn't do, because his magic doesn't melt stuff, it pulverizes.

Gildarts disassembled the roar and black hole, with the latter being the stronger spell. It didn't happen instantly, so I'm not even sure he can disassemble a sizable portion of current Natsu's roar.

That wasn't a good response to my question but whatever.

Natsu attacks have gotten bigger but that change the fact that Gildarts used crash to destroy a mountain? No. You're a mod and you should know that were comparing Natsu and Gildarts.

I didn't say that Gildarts didn't destroy a mountain so I don't know what you mean by that.

If we're comparing Natsu and Gildarts then both their Bluenote encounters should be the primary Natsu obviously has that covered. Then we compare their physicals, which are probably comparable. Then we compare offence, Natsu's full-powered base and FDK spells are above the best feat Gildarts has shown, which is Empyrean.

 

[Woodenstool]

My point was that crash is better at cracking mountains that a lot of magic ie conducive. Natsu's able to casually melt the GMG staduim, which is something Gildarts couldn't do, because his magic doesn't melt stuff, it pulverizes.

Gildarts disassembled the roar and black hole, with the latter being the stronger spell. It didn't happen instantly, so I'm not even sure he can disassemble a sizable portion of current Natsu's roar.



I didn't say that Gildarts didn't destroy a mountain so I don't know what you mean by that.

If we're comparing Natsu and Gildarts then both their Bluenote encounters should be the primary Natsu obviously has that covered. Then we compare their physicals, which are probably comparable. Then we compare offence, Natsu's full-powered base and FDK spells are above the best feat Gildarts has shown, which is Empyrean.

Does it matter if it takes time for crash to travel?
Gildarts has been purposely written out of arcs for a reason. And even you don't believe me, I doubt hes coming this arc because his fights would be boring.

Every spriggan has a spell which can destroyed. (Im talking about the spriggans left). Invel uses ice, and crash would break that, August knows every elemental magic and Ancient magics which can be destroyed. (We don't know what ancient spells are so...), and etc.

Gildarts accidentally cracking a town is more impressive feat than Natsu actually trying to ablaze the GMG.

 

[Brandish μ]

Does it matter if it takes time for crash to travel?
Gildarts has been purposely written out of arcs for a reason. And even you don't believe me, I doubt hes coming this arc because his fights would be boring.

Every spriggan has a spell which can destroyed. (Im talking about the spriggans left). Invel uses ice, and crash would break that, August knows every elemental magic and Ancient magics which can be destroyed. (We don't know what ancient spells are so...), and etc.

Gildarts accidentally cracking a town is more impressive feat than Natsu actually trying to ablaze the GMG.

Yea, it would need to be quick enough to stop the roar, which is not only quick but huge.

I agree that Gildarts gets written out of arcs partly because of his power level. Only a few pre-skip antagonists could have beaten him. Plus the manga is mainly about the younger guys in the guild.

Spriggan's magic can be disassembled I guess... but Gildarts best feat with this magic is destroying Bluenote's Blackhole. Just how much benefit of the doubt can we allow with that? Up to Spriggan level? Or above that, like Igneel's Roar? Council's Etherion? I think he could manage to disassemble some Spriggan spells, just not many of them. For example, I doubt he could disassemble God Serena's DS spells before the spells hit Gildarts.

We can agree to disagree about accidentally cracking a town > Natsu's melting of the GMG; though I consider them both to be decent non-combat feats (which are more subjective than combat ones). Natsu oneshotting Bluenote is much more impressive than Gildarts defeat of Bluenote.

 

[Woodenstool]

Yea, it would need to be quick enough to stop the roar, which is not only quick but huge.

I agree that Gildarts gets written out of arcs partly because of his power level. Only a few pre-skip antagonists could have beaten him. Plus the manga is mainly about the younger guys in the guild.

Spriggan's magic can be disassembled I guess... but Gildarts best feat with this magic is destroying Bluenote's Blackhole. Just how much benefit of the doubt can we allow with that? Up to Spriggan level? Or above that, like Igneel's Roar? Council's Etherion? I think he could manage to disassemble some Spriggan spells, just not many of them. For example, I doubt he could disassemble God Serena's DS spells before the spells hit Gildarts.

We can agree to disagree about accidentally cracking a town > Natsu's melting of the GMG; though I consider them both to be decent non-combat feats (which are more subjective than combat ones). Natsu oneshotting Bluenote is much more impressive than Gildarts defeat of Bluenote.

Igneels roar requires range and we both know Gildarts magic can expand enough for a mountain than it can no doubt expand for Natsu roar of the fire dragon king.

God Serena is a trash compared to Gildarts. God Serena may be to bring out his different lacrimas quickly but Gildarts has shown insane speed feats through out the series. We don't know how fast GS because he obviously got killed off and I care not to speculate on that topic. Gildarts magic is powerful but comparing it to Etherion is pointless. One blast can wipe out a country and possibility take out Acnologia in a couple hits.

Observe that mountain.

 

[Brandish μ]

Igneels roar requires range and we both know Gildarts magic can expand enough for a mountain than it can no doubt expand for Natsu roar of the fire dragon king.

God Serena is a trash compared to Gildarts. God Serena may be to bring out his different lacrimas quickly but Gildarts has shown insane speed feats through out the series. We don't know how fast GS because he obviously got killed off and I care not to speculate on that topic. Gildarts magic is powerful but comparing it to Etherion is pointless. One blast can wipe out a country and possibility take out Acnologia in a couple hits.

Observe that mountain.

The mountain is cracked by crash magic. Blackhole is cracked by disassembly magic. Essentially it's crash for offence, disassembly for defence.

 

[Orgastthemage]

i guess DF Natsu is POTENTIALLY stronger, but we do not know how strong.

I am willing to believe that Gildarts through portrayal is still stronger than Current Natsu, However DF is the difference, Either granting Natsu the Win or loss.

Gildarts experience will be KEY his victory, I think Gildarts may win due to his experience in the field, after all he does go on the absolute TOUGHEST quests.
He is sure to know at least some strategems against High or even Higher level foes. Granted, the nature of his magics gives him, along with his experience, the edge.