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Discussion Hiatus X Hiatus

DDed

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Before I wanna close this I just wanna say:
I know this is a rough time for us to be stuck in a bad situation, but this is now our top priority for taking care of health issues, and also several crisis. I know that Jump is trying to bring new manga just for the sale. But sadly, I don't think Togashi might gonna show up.
In my obvious but sad thought: I don't even think he is gonna comeback this year. We all had our own problems, Togashi has his own problem with his health issues, WSJ staffs have their own problem so we had to be patiently wait and support WSJ ourself.
If he even comeback this year like right now, I don't know if he's gonna comeback this year, if he does, is gonna be 10 chapters
 

Drakrami

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Almost 2 years... At the time of the Hiatus I swear I read we will be back soon and this time very shortly. How da hell does it turn into one of the longest Hiatus... 2 freaking years!
 

DDed

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Almost 2 years... At the time of the Hiatus I swear I read we will be back soon and this time very shortly. How da hell does it turn into one of the longest Hiatus... 2 freaking years!
Pandemic, Togashi's health, Weekly Shounen Jump is screwed
I can't blame him, I can't blame Jump, we are total f up right now
 

Drakrami

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Pandemic, Togashi's health, Weekly Shounen Jump is screwed
I can't blame him, I can't blame Jump, we are total f up right now
Why's WSJ screwed? Low sales or something?
 

DDed

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Why's WSJ screwed? Low sales or something?
1/ One of the staffs who had infected and they had to scale up the break (including OP, MHA, Black Cover, etc.)
2/ Several good and short Jump series are ended (Haikyuu!!!, Kimetsu no Yaiba, The Promise Neverland, etc.)
3/ The recent controversy from one of the creator of Act Age
The only good news is new Tite Kubo series but we only got 4 chapters, probably we'll see until next week
Number 1 is probably explained why he isn't able to comeback
 
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Drakrami

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1/ One of the staffs who had infected and they had to scale up the break (including OP, MHA, Black Cover, etc.)
2/ Several good and short Jump series are ended (Haikyuu!!!, Kimetsu no Yaiba, The Promise Neverland, etc.)
3/ The recent controversy from one of the creator of Act Age
The only good news is new Tite Kubo series but we only got 4 chapters, probably we'll see until next week
Number 1 is probably explained why he isn't able to comeback
The infected staff was back in March or some time like that, that's 5 months ago!
It's true Jump hasn't been able to produce more AAA mangas after the big 3 One Piece, Naruto, Bleach. The new series the keep pumping out looks really meh to me, it's all comedy and stuff. Chainsawman is ending soon too I read? Shouldn't have ended Samurai 8, it's not Naruto level good, but still not a bad read.
 

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It's true Jump hasn't been able to produce more AAA mangas after the big 3 One Piece, Naruto, Bleac
My Hero Accademia, Haykyuu, Neverland, Demon Slayer......
 

Drakrami

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My Hero Accademia, Haykyuu, Neverland, Demon Slayer......
Neverland was only suspenseful for the first 10 chapters. After that it seemed like the story lacked its pillar and was just dragging it out so that it could be called a full length manga. My Hero is decent.. Not One Piece/Naruto/Bleach level though, not yet to me at least. Haikyuu I haven't read it yet, but seems like your typical sports manga...? Demon Slayer, haven't started reading it; should be very good.

I mean they had decades to plan ahead to bring in some big work that can take over One Piece/Naruto/Bleach once they retire, these mangas started in 1997.
 

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Neverland was only suspenseful for the first 10 chapters.
The first arc was good but then it made this half-hearted genre switch to faux-isekai and it all went downhill from there
 

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Oh, while this discussion is not really on 'topic', i feel with the current hiatus, it is fine to lead it.

Now, i reflected a little on why jump is different today. The conclusion i came to is that there are 3 mainreasons:

1) A different media landscape
2) Changing demographics
3) Changing tastes.

You could be tempted to ask why jump cannot do a very successful battle shonen anymore even tho that is what they did nonstop for decades.
Well, first of all, jump kinda does.
Jump has OP, MHA, dr Stone, until recently demon slayer and we could also probably count mashle.
We are honest to each other, the jump lineup is really strong, it also has stuff like chainsaw man, which would be unheard of in the 90s. These are all strong and successful series. So was Neverland.

Yet, strangely, the ones that get really successful like neverland and demon slayer get cut short. Why? Because of the changing demographics. (2)

A manga like one piece (or mashle, for that matter) that is more 'day to day' and that you can mostly pick up even if you start late because arcs are relatively independent can run forever.
But if jump would clog up their magazine with things like neverland or demonslayer that are harder to get into the longer they run, they would always only maintain the fans they have after a peak, but younger or new readers are not going to buy the magazine, because there is no big thing they can get into.
That was different when jump was really strong. Their maindemographics were young and really invested kids. They knew what these big series were about, OP, naruto, bleach, hxh, dragonball. But now, lots of japanese kids would ask themselves why they should buy a magazine like jump if they can watch netflix, and the magazine has lots of older readers or women and has to offer a lineup for all of their bases. They need stuff like act age or chainsaw man to invest people into the magazine that ordinarily wouldnt go for one piece or MHA.

For new readers, it would make far more sense to just read the volumes online somewhere. That brings us to 1).. Unlike the 80s and 90s or even 00s, now you have this insane backlog of manga at your fingertips. Why would you buy a magazine just for one piece and MHA if you can instead read these but also dragonball, naruto, death note and so on online without having to wait for one week? That is even true for digital.
So Jump series are direct rivals to former jump series.
Why would you give a trainwreck like ghostwriter a chance if you can read bakuman?

And then there is the changing taste 2).
Simply put, a lot of people are not really putting up with 'having to wait a week for one chap' anymore. And those who do usually want a quick fix. As in: It gets increasingly hard to do a long series with an ongoing storyline, because the people who still buy the magazine get upset if they just get a transitional chapter for the 1 or 2 big series they buy the magazine for.
So you need to have lots of series that are accessible enough to offer a thrill even for readers that do not care a lot about them.
That is how you end up with mashle, agravity boys or phantom seer. These manga are VERY fastpaces and try to offer some conflict every week (monster of the week format with basically no transitional chapters at all). There will not be a chapter like in one piece in which a conflict is just set up and will be resolved on chapter after. It has to happen inside the chapter, every week.
That makes it more accessible for readers that dont really care about it and makes them more likely to keep buying the mag if they can at least read half of the content without being annoyed, but it makes series more shallow.
Mashle is more successful than many more well renowned manga. But it certainly wont be remembered ten years after it is over with people going 'yeah, mashle, those were the times'.

____

So, in short, the three reasons i outlined lead to jump having to use measures to combat them.
These measures, in turn, cool off longtime manga fans who are used to different ways.
 

Aeneas

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No Undead mention, noro?

:biblethump
 

Copy Panda

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Oh, while this discussion is not really on 'topic', i feel with the current hiatus, it is fine to lead it.

Now, i reflected a little on why jump is different today. The conclusion i came to is that there are 3 mainreasons:

1) A different media landscape
2) Changing demographics
3) Changing tastes.
With time passing, I don't really feel like this is a novel assessment. This applies to basically every cultural appliance

You could be tempted to ask why jump cannot do a very successful battle shonen anymore even tho that is what they did nonstop for decades.
Well, first of all, jump kinda does.
Isn't this begging the question? Jump does still do (successful) battle shounen.

Jump has OP, MHA, dr Stone, until recently demon slayer and we could also probably count mashle.
We are honest to each other, the jump lineup is really strong, it also has stuff like chainsaw man, which would be unheard of in the 90s. These are all strong and successful series. So was Neverland.
I thought Neverland kinda sucked (especially) towards the end (but also the middle. The start was amazing), but that's an entirely subjective assessment


Yet, strangely, the ones that get really successful like neverland and demon slayer get cut short. Why? Because of the changing demographics.(2)
Isn't it because those stories kind of reached their end? Beating increasingly strong bosses, gaining more influence or power, etc. until they finally accomplish their goal?

A manga like one piece (or mashle, for that matter) that is more 'day to day' and that you can mostly pick up even if you start late because arcs are relatively independent can run forever.
I think the vast majority of people think the opposite: the story is too large to easily get into, and depending on the medium they pick (and their sensitivities towards... different styles) especially the older arcs could be a turn-off.

But if jump would clog up their magazine with things like neverland or demonslayer that are harder to get into the longer they run, they would always only maintain the fans they have after a peak, but younger or new readers are not going to buy the magazine, because there is no big thing they can get into.That was different when jump was really strong. Their maindemographics were young and really invested kids. They knew what these big series were about, OP, naruto, bleach, hxh, dragonball. But now, lots of japanese kids would ask themselves why they should buy a magazine like jump if they can watch netflix, and the magazine has lots of older readers or women and has to offer a lineup for all of their bases. They need stuff like act age or chainsaw man to invest people into the magazine that ordinarily wouldnt go for one piece or MHA.
I think it's fair to say that media overall (much like say technology) has moved towards presenting itself in a more compressed manner. An easy example is sth like twitter, but games too, becoming shorter, easier, more instalment based (buying short game and DLC separately) etc.. There is definitely a desire to present more compact products as it were. Easy to digest, mentally, but also physically.

For new readers, it would make far more sense to just read the volumes online somewhere. That brings us to 1).. Unlike the 80s and 90s or even 00s, now you have this insane backlog of manga at your fingertips. Why would you buy a magazine just for one piece and MHA if you can instead read these but also dragonball, naruto, death note and so on online without having to wait for one week? That is even true for digital.
So Jump series are direct rivals to former jump series.
To support the product to show support? As in, by buying merch they give feedback that they like a series. I'm not sure if they still do that, but there was a poll in each jump magazine that reflected on how people enjoyed issues from that week. KPop fans do this internationally, but I imagine especially domestically as an integral part of their culture they'd consider buying physical copies of a jump zine. Besides that, in some countries certain sites might be illegal or inaccessible, so that's part of it too (similar to how for example porn sites are prohibited in certain countries)

Why would you give a trainwreck like ghostwriter a chance if you can read bakuman?
But why wouldn't you be able to consume both? People have different tastes. The sheer variety and volume of available manga to an extent proves this. If it captures a niche it's good enough. People can like multiple things, so even a trainwreck could be worth it to at least check out. Whether it'll succeed is, of course, a separate issue.

And then there is the changing taste 2).
Simply put, a lot of people are not really putting up with 'having to wait a week for one chap' anymore. And those who do usually want a quick fix. As in: It gets increasingly hard to do a long series with an ongoing storyline, because the people who still buy the magazine get upset if they just get a transitional chapter for the 1 or 2 big series they buy the magazine for.
And yet this scarcity is part of the appeal. Basically, their demographic are less impatient people than you. Some will defect to consuming older product (or other product altogether), but asking this is like asking why new things that people pay for at all work. Because they support the product. According to your logic, Crunchyroll or Netflix business model would never take off because you can watch anything for free online. People pay for quality and to partake in culture.

So you need to have lots of series that are accessible enough to offer a thrill even for readers that do not care a lot about them.
That is how you end up with mashle, agravity boys or phantom seer. These manga are VERY fastpaces and try to offer some conflict every week (monster of the week format with basically no transitional chapters at all). There will not be a chapter like in one piece in which a conflict is just set up and will be resolved on chapter after. It has to happen inside the chapter, every week.
That makes it more accessible for readers that dont really care about it and makes them more likely to keep buying the mag if they can at least read half of the content without being annoyed, but it makes series more shallow.
Mashle is more successful than many more well renowned manga. But it certainly wont be remembered ten years after it is over with people going 'yeah, mashle, those were the times'.
So you think Jump has like a box of manga that have the potential to be pretty good in the long term but won't be popular or sth? Possible, but I think the alternative is more likely: it's hard to find quality writers. When you can't you default to genre writing. As in, there will always be people willing to consume a genre (Corona Romance is a genre now lol), but there will always be much more people willing to consume something engaging. In other worse, people will consume shounen anime or fantasy that like it. But even people that don't like those genres will be willing to view DBZ or GoT, because those series carry some inherently appealing quality with them.

So, in short, the three reasons i outlined lead to jump having to use measures to combat them.
These measures, in turn, cool off longtime manga fans who are used to different ways.
Imo there are two main differences between shounen now and back then; the starting level and attitude of the MC (more grounded and rational) and the importance of social dynamics

Shounen protagonists in the past came part and parcel with some insane power they had yet to tame. What separated them from everyone else, was their insane (untapped) potential. In the opening arcs, they encounter a rival who physically surpasses them and they work to physically overpower them. Battles are strongly decided by power and talent. Magic systems are (relatively) soft, characters grow fast.

Nowadays, I think that Shounen has shifted focus in a few important ways. The setting tends to be much more grounded and the main character is much more informed about their surroundings. The audience generally finds out information along with the MC rather than it being told to us unilaterally. The audience generally receives the inciting power up with the character (rather than it turns out the main protagonist has the ultimate jutsu all along!!). The main character baseline starting level is much lower (closer to a real human) and the characters train to gain power equal to the norm, rather than further refining their God-given gifts. The rules of magic in these series tend towards the harder side. The reason why the MC has a particular power level or is given a certain power tends to more 'rational' too. It's not entirely different from shounen, but the scope of the MC's power level is generally made clear early on. Information about their heritage, of course, changes things, but thematically the new power-up doesn't break the rules as often as it used to (the new powers still fall in the 'domain' of previously established rules, rather than work along entirely different mechanic).

The setting is also much more sociable. That is to say, the group of people all working towards the same goal as the MC is larger. So not ambition, but actual goal alignment. In general, the central theme of the story resolves much more about a social antagonism (group versus group) rather than psychological antagonisms (being lonely or alone, but powerful). The goals of the protagonist, therefore, generally have something to do with this social cleavage. While friendship is still important, the MC is less of an outcast (or maybe an outcast but less unaware of social norms, because they're more 'normal').
 

shionoro

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Isn't it because those stories kind of reached their end? Beating increasingly strong bosses, gaining more influence or power, etc. until they finally accomplish their goal?
Sure, but whether a story reaches its end early is a question of how you write it. If there was a mangaka and a magazine willing to shoot for 500 chapters, demonslayer would have been 500 chapters long because the progression of power would happen more slowly and the manga would be tweaked for that.
One piece could legitimately be handled in 300 chapters, but it can just aswell be handled in 3000.
There are series that need to be shorter, like death note. But you know that when you start them. Jump starting many new series that are no contenders for 700 chapters (while they dished out these kinds of series a lot in the past) means they don't want to have series like that (or that they dont find authors who are willing to write them).

I think the vast majority of people think the opposite: the story is too large to easily get into, and depending on the medium they pick (and their sensitivities towards... different styles) especially the older arcs could be a turn-off.
That is not what i meant. What i mean is that a child who starts reading jump for whichever reason can probably (at least with some pointers and catchup) get into one piece by starting it at chapter 900 because one piece offers gags and fights and has a popular anime that can point them to it even more. It does not need to understand everything, but one piece is sequential enough that you get your gag or your fight fix in one chapter, even if you do not really know who is who. That is definitely not true about series like neverland.
But why wouldn't you be able to consume both? People have different tastes. The sheer variety and volume of available manga to an extent proves this. If it captures a niche it's good enough. People can like multiple things, so even a trainwreck could be worth it to at least check out. Whether it'll succeed is, of course, a separate issue.
You can consume both: On mangakakalot for free. You cannot consume both in jump , but you have to pay. The decision is between reading anything you want to read for free and reading only the few select series in jump with a paywall.
That means jump has to really convince you that these series will always give you a fix, even those you didn't come for, if they want to sell their magazines.
If jump JUST has one piece or JUST has Naruto, or even just these two coupled together, that's not enough to convince many people anymore to buy their magazine because they can instead just read 20 amazing similar shonen series like dragonball, yyh, bleach, shaman king and so on (even legally, you can do that instead of putting up with a weekly magazine). To convince people to keep buying the magazine each week is harder and harder if you JUST have two or even three series that interest them. You have to have enough content to make them feel like it was worth it to buy the mag.
And yet this scarcity is part of the appeal. Basically, their demographic are less impatient people than you. Some will defect to consuming older product (or other product altogether), but asking this is like asking why new things that people pay for at all work. Because they support the product. According to your logic, Crunchyroll or Netflix business model would never take off because you can watch anything for free online. People pay for quality and to partake in culture
There is a big difference in jump and netflix. Netflix is the only service that offers their series in a comfortable way. Nobody wants to put up with illegal sites that you have to search for online , that often have LESS stuff available than netflix with a million popups in a bad quality.
Not when netflix offers you a wide variety of series in top quality and in a very COMFORTABLE way, arguably the most comfortable way you can watch all that stuff in
Jump is less comfortable and has less utility by virtue of being a print magazine than mangakakalot has. I have to buy it and then I have to store the magazine with lots of content i do not care for. On mangakakalot, I can browse around without paying and search for all kinds of series. If i want to, i can read 10 volumes of different series from different time periods a day, home and on the go on my smartphone. I can do that on netflix too, i can not do that with jump magazines. I can not even do that with jump digital. Jump digital offers me a worse service that any of the big manga pages offers me. That is the core difference between jump and netflix.
And that is not me being the problem or impatient. That is most people, as you can see when you look at jump's declining numbers (that started declining when most people still considered it to be amazing). Jump is in steady decline since 1995, well before one piece and other of its big series were a thing. None of these big series could really stop that. There was the One PIece reversla, which made the magazine grow slightly again from 2007 to 2011, but it went all downhill from there again.
It shrunk from a weekly circulation of 6,530,000 in 1995 to 2,778,750 in 2007, so worse than halvign in 12 years.
It grew to 2,890,000 in 2011, but after that, it decline to 1,670,245 in 2018.
You can try to explain some of it away with digital, but really, there are problems on many fronts and jump's digital offerings do not combat most of them.
Certainly tho: No. Scarcity is no appeal to most people. It puts them off.
 

DDed

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Has anybody know what the freak vinyl is?
(Sounds like entire CD contained 2011 OST)
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

IT HAS BEEN 86 ISSUES
 

Aeneas

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Has anybody know what the freak vinyl is?
(Sounds like entire CD contained 2011 OST)
Check out their website. And yeah, should include the three OSTs.

 

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Any news about HXH hiatus ?
 
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