Minato may not be from the big clan but he was considered as one of a few self made true prodigy (other was itachi) who comes once in a lifetime.Even sasuke had to train with orochimaru and had to access the cursed mark to become strong. He was a hype. And his mother was from the uzumaki clan who were direct relatives of senju clan and were direct descendants of asura, so yeah naruto did have special genes, why do you think he was able to learn perfect senjutsu when even jiraiya who had far more k=experience couldn't master.
I have heard quite a few people complain about how women are treated in Berserk and I can understand why, so I do respect your opinion*opening Pandora box*
Ok, I know Ill be ridiculed and hated forever there, I know Berserk is a masterpiece, I know Naruto has big flaws. I know things Im going to mention are not that simple, I know Miura is a genius... But Im a woman, and whatever plot reasons, characterisation and so., and even if Berserk is a flawless manga or anything, sorry i just can't give my vote to a manga that portrays a woman being raped with such a lewd expression.
There's no excuse i can accept to this, unfortunately, its quite common now in many media to display rape as a "pleasant experience" for women when its supposed to be the utmost humiliation, I know its arguable in casca case, but still there's no doubt about her feelings when you see her face. Again Im not at all a feminist or anything like this, im not bashing Berserk or Berserk fans for this, and im not saying Berserk is bad because of this, its just my personnal opinion on this specific part of the story which makes me uneasy.
Ready to receive your stones.
*closing Pandora box*
There were only few superior uchichas to begin with. Shisui was dead already, whereas obito helped itachi in finishing off police station. The strongest uchicha was sasuke and itachi's father who had refused to fght with itachi and was accepting his death. On top of that it was an operation that happened in night a type of operation thaat itachi specialised in .And lastly itachi was himslef a prodigy who probably at 13 was stronger than most of the jonins of his village. If you take all these points then uchich massacre in one night is not that far fetched.
The Uchiha were taken out within the course of a single night.
Sure, there were strong Uchiha in the village, who would have been harder to kill, but the majority were probably children, the elderly, and people who weren't mission-experienced expert battle-hardened ninja.
Also, look how long it took for the Sand village attack to get cleaned up. It is likely that they brought some of their strongest ninjas to that fight (they brought Gaara, their only jinchurichi, ffs) and it was over in an afternoon.
The Uchiha would have been having to fight every clan within Konohagakure.
Best I could see them doing would be a tactical retreat.
Firstly, the leaders in Konoha knew what the Uchiha were plotting (due to Itachi) and were always knew their plans 1 step ahead of them.
Secondly, the Uchiha probably understood that there was no way they could trust any of the other countries.
Also, they probably wondered what the point in trying to brutally overthrow one leader, to sell yourselves into subservience to another, would be.
Danzo's actions were pure plot convenience – they don't impact on the integrity [in a narrative sense] of his overall character at all, in my opinion.
He had to act like an idiot, otherwise Kishimoto wouldn't have had an even harder way of pushing that plot twist into the story.
Someone who wants to train smart, effective, ninjas.
Someone who is asking a 13 year old boy to kill his family (and trusts him to do as much).
It appears that in the Naruto world, children grow up fast. They are given much greater responsibility at a much younger age.
Of course they would trust the opinion of a Uchiha, when they are trying to plan out a horrific genocide on the Uchiha – through the use of that said Uchiha.
He knows his clan best.
He knows how they think, what they are likely to do, what they desire, who they are, better than anyone else.
Asking someone to leak information about their family and asking them to brutalize their family are 2 different things.
Well, Hiruzen, the defacto leader, certainly did discuss with Itachi.
And about the logic of doing so, I guess here is another place where we are in disagreement.
He was duped into murdering his girlfriend, his friends and family.
You said
I was arguing against that.
His ineffectual nature meant that it isn't possible to say what he was thinking.
Had he wanted to, arresting Danzo would have been possible, as would arresting the Uchiha leaders.
I think I have dealt with the fact that I don't believe that would be the only method to stop a civil war.
As for 'saving his younger brother' – he knew he couldn't trust Danzo in this either. He'd have been better taking Sasuke with him and mind-fucking him into thinking something else happened (thus having to flee), had he really wanted to ensure Sasuke's safety from Danzo.
There are many things he could have done.
Hell, he could have told the Uchiha who were living happily in the city and the regular civilians about the plot. He could have forced the Uchiha leader's (and Danzo's) hand for them – it is likely that not all the Uchiha would suddenly take up arms.
The third would have been able to get ANBU/ninja there ready (had Itachi prewarned him).
The fight might happen, but it would have been brief, the Uchiha could have been captured alive (there are numerous techniques shown in the series to do as much), tried – fairly, and the rest of the Uchiha would have seen justice prevail.
That's just one potential way the whole shitty event could have been stopped, which wouldn't make Itachi appear such a contemptible character.
If you really see nothing wrong with what happened, then I am not sure we will ever be able to reach an accord.
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One thing about naruto series I liked the most was the foreshadowing. Everything was foreshadowed from the start except for kaguya part, so no one can complain that the author had to bring in new story line, it was like kishimoto had thought about full story right from the start except for naruto meeting minato part which he deicided later on (even that was logical and not an asspull way for naruto to control his transformation against pain).
It happened - I am not sure what your point is...
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Good enough reason to vote as any.*opening Pandora box*
Ok, I know Ill be ridiculed and hated forever there, I know Berserk is a masterpiece, I know Naruto has big flaws. I know things Im going to mention are not that simple, I know Miura is a genius... But Im a woman, and whatever plot reasons, characterisation and so., and even if Berserk is a flawless manga or anything, sorry i just can't give my vote to a manga that portrays a woman being raped with such a lewd expression.
I, like others, respect your opinion on this Erin, but I actually strongly disagree with the notion that Casca enjoyed this. This is something I hear from the fandom here or there and it is simply not true.*opening Pandora box*
Ok, I know Ill be ridiculed and hated forever there, I know Berserk is a masterpiece, I know Naruto has big flaws. I know things Im going to mention are not that simple, I know Miura is a genius... But Im a woman, and whatever plot reasons, characterisation and so., and even if Berserk is a flawless manga or anything, sorry i just can't give my vote to a manga that portrays a woman being raped with such a lewd expression.
There's no excuse i can accept to this, unfortunately, its quite common now in many media to display rape as a "pleasant experience" for women when its supposed to be the utmost humiliation, I know its arguable in casca case, but still there's no doubt about her feelings when you see her face. Again Im not at all a feminist or anything like this, im not bashing Berserk or Berserk fans for this, and im not saying Berserk is bad because of this, its just my personnal opinion on this specific part of the story which makes me uneasy.
Ready to receive your stones.
*closing Pandora box*
Aye, as much as I may disagree with him and @The President, they certainly are putting in the effort.Props to @Emperor Spriggan though, he's campaigning with all his soul.
Yep, our favorite group of villains started from here 
), they both plot to take down the Akatsuki, fearing that over time, Yahiko would become an Usurper and more well renown than Hanzo as the leader of the Rain Village. The result?
Thing is, pleasure is pleasure. A women might mentally despise whats going on (which is clearly the case here), but the body often acts independent of the mind. Same thing with men. I really dont want to go into the logistics of "bodily pleasure" here so I'll leave it at that.
Yeah, but same thing goes for most series. Those that dont are usually the series that are poorly written (like FT). I do agree though that, while I disliked Tobi being Obito, he did lay out a shit ton of evidence for it over the course of the series. But Kishimoto really likes wasting his good writing potential with terrible payoff.
We will leave it at that then, agree to disagree.
Why would you find so the scene so problematic if it is in no way portrayed as consensual, titling or meant to come off as nothing but horror and a terrible thing?*opening Pandora box*
Ok, I know Ill be ridiculed and hated forever there, I know Berserk is a masterpiece, I know Naruto has big flaws. I know things Im going to mention are not that simple, I know Miura is a genius... But Im a woman, and whatever plot reasons, characterisation and so., and even if Berserk is a flawless manga or anything, sorry i just can't give my vote to a manga that portrays a woman being raped with such a lewd expression.
There's no excuse i can accept to this, unfortunately, its quite common now in many media to display rape as a "pleasant experience" for women when its supposed to be the utmost humiliation, I know its arguable in casca case, but still there's no doubt about her feelings when you see her face. Again Im not at all a feminist or anything like this, im not bashing Berserk or Berserk fans for this, and im not saying Berserk is bad because of this, its just my personnal opinion on this specific part of the story which makes me uneasy.
Ready to receive your stones.
*closing Pandora box*
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I actually disagree here. While yes there is sexual content in Berserk and much of it is explicit, the series is well in tone for a dark fantasy horror series. The Casca situation is no where near some fantasy as you put it, the whole scene is horrific, and is meant to be that way unequivocally.There is a lot of sexual weirdness in Berserk. Like the Casca thing playing out like some sort of secret cuckold fantasy is bad absolutely. But I feel like when it plays with the idea of Schierke X Guts stuff. I find that way worse. Just implying the possibly of that is...yuck.
Berserk just needs to stick with the sweet vanilla that is Guts X Farnese.
Sure, she started with some *coughs awkwardly* sadomasochistic tendencies. But once she got past the whole whipping herself and others kink she turned into a super sweet and nice person. Needs to grow her hair long again though. Symbolism for a change in persona is great and all but she was way cuter with long hair.
Lots of sexual weirdness in Naruto too, to be fair. But usually of the "strangely homoerotic subtext" variety.--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I can't imagine Guts with someone other than Casca. Not after all of this. Guts x Casca x Farnese however...There is a lot of sexual weirdness in Berserk. Like the Casca thing playing out like some sort of secret cuckold fantasy is bad absolutely. But I feel like when it plays with the idea of Schierke X Guts stuff. I find that way worse. Just implying the possibly of that is...yuck.
Berserk just needs to stick with the sweet vanilla that is Guts X Farnese.
Sure, she started with some *coughs awkwardly* sadomasochistic tendencies. But once she got past the whole whipping herself and others kink she turned into a super sweet and nice person. Needs to grow her hair long again though. Symbolism for a change in persona is great and all but she was way cuter with long hair.
Lots of sexual weirdness in Naruto too, to be fair. But usually of the "strangely homoerotic subtext" variety.--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
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Minato wasn't said to be a self made prodigy. He was said to be a prodigy of the once every generation kind but he was like that since he was a child. There are no self made prodigies in naruto, the idea goes against what prodigies in naruto are. Minato has the distinction of being a prodigy in spite of apparently not having alien genes in him though. But even that is not something minato can really take credit for because no one can influence the amount of talent one is born with.
