Theory Traitor theories

[Cat Sidhe26]

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 23, 2021 ---

 

[Neala897]

Here my thoughts. Monster is symbol for traitor or even for Afo himself (through traitor) who tries to find\get Ofa(Deku). And that bottle near Aoyama symbolise Deku. Its empty because Izuku left Ua. Aoyama wanted to protect Deku but now he just sad that he left.

 

[Cat Sidhe26]

Aoyama being the traitor would explain those chapters when Aoyama was acting weird.

 

[Neala897]

Aoyama being the traitor would explain those chapters when Aoyama was acting weird.

Hmmmmmm in a sense it would but honestly? I am pretty sure Kohei would not hinted it like that.

 

[JazzMazz]

Aoyama being the traitor would explain those chapters when Aoyama was acting weird.

Eh, I think its worth differentiating acting weird with acting in a way the character usually doesn't.

 

[Ilyia]

While Ochako also fits the bill reasonably well, her status as a shonen love interest and heroic foil to Toga - plus the fragments of backstory and motivation we've received throughout the series - makes the prospect of her being the traitor a whole lot less likely (unless Hori pulling some major Penn & Teller levels of narrative misdirection here, which would admittedly be pretty awesome )

It would not be that much of a redirection though? Every single instance where we see Ochaco think, her thoughts could actually be interpreted as that of a traitor. Everu single time she takes an action they are "dubious" and potentially two-faced. As an example when she tried to convince Izuku and the others not to try and help Bakugou because he would be upset? While this might indeed be true that he would dislike such actions, if you think about it clearly... what kind of an argument is that? Don't save a persons life because they might be a little angry about it? Even Asui's reasons were better then since they were actually rooted in the law and questioned whether or not it what they were doing were actions of a hero. But the major ones are the thoughts she had when she was shown to think that she had to step up her game and not allow her feelings keep herself from doing what she had to. This was interpreted by the Internet as her deciding that she had to work harder to be a hero, but it can also be read as Ochaco being conflicted about being a traitor but steeling her resolve. Likewise even her interactions with Himiko does not negate any of this. People seem to think that Ochaco can't be a person that wants to avoid people dying while at the same time being the traitor. Look at Jin and Himiko. Himiko is a broken person that has given up and into her quirk while Jin was a guy that lied to himself because he was broken. Even then the two of them were never arbitrarily malicious and showed that they cared about their friends and other people. What I am saying here is that it is perfectly possible for Ochaco to want to save people while still having villainous intentions. In fact her saving people might even be something she does because she is fighting her own nature. As suggested by Himiko, Ochaco actually has a desire to drop people from a high place. Now you might say that Himiko is a bit off in the head, but what we do know about her is that she is a stalker that get inside of people's heads. We also know that Himiko is only able to use the quirks of other people if she understand them and exactly what makes that quirk work. Himiko wears a DNA shell of the person that she transforms into, hiding inside of their flesh. In other words, if a quirk gave a person certain desires then Himiko would actually know about it.

It has happened twice now. Himiko has said something to Ochaco that make the other girl get this shocked/angry look on of denial on her face. The first time was when she was talking with Ochaco about love and compared her to herself (suggesting that Ochaco was lying to herself and two-faced) and the other time was when Himiko suggested that Ochaco desired to drop people from high places. You only get these expressions on Ochaco's face when Himiko talks about her and not really when Himiko says other crazy stuff. No matter how you look at it, there is no real reason for Ochaco to react only like this when Himiko talks about Ochaco herself unless what Himiko said was true.

Another indicator that it is true is Himiko's reaction to Ochaco's denial. When Ochaco denies it instead of following up on it, Himiko instead has this bored look and then shifts the topic... in other words, it wasn't a matter of discussion since Himiko knew that Ochaco was lying. Why do I say this? Well, don't forget that Himiko constantly talks about how she understand the people she likes right? And how she wants to know more about them. Claiming that Ochaco wanted to drop people from high places and then getting a flat denial thrown in her face should actually have hurt Himiko a bit if it in any way made her think that she had been wrong about this. But Himiko does not show any such reaction... hence, this was something unlike other things, that she was completely certain of.

So yes, Ochaco should logically be the traitor. She is the only one that would make sense and she is the only one that actually would have a real impact. But as I have found out, it seems that Horikoshi sometimes decide to do the opposite of good writing simply because he thinks breaking expectations is good story telling. This is why it is possible for him to either entirely scrap the idea of there being a traitor (despite it having been perhaps the most popular plot device in the entire manga) or he might just make the traitor into some random character that nobody cares about. Don't forget that he constantly draw the people in Izuku's class in big colored pages despite most of them being more irrelevant than many of the other characters in the manga.

Tooru is the only one in the entire main cast (including faculty and students) that makes an iota of sense.

That isn't true though? The only thing you have going is that she is "slightly relevant" , that you don't know that much about her and that... she can turn invisible. Aside from that you have absolutely nothing. Now I know that Horikoshi make strange writing decisions, but why make a traitor and not leave even a chance of a hint in what they are saying? Ochaco on the other hand have plenty of hints and they keep on piling up. Again, there is even those notes where he wrote something along the lines of that he thought his original design was too obviously two-faced looking.

Aoyama being the traitor would explain those chapters when Aoyama was acting weird.

It could also be explained by with him knowing who the traitor is and trying to protect everyone you know? As for weird, one of the weirdest things was his interaction/little talk with Ochaco where what he was saying could be interpreted as him basically telling her to stop being the traitor. The scene I am talking about is that one where they are hanging in mid-air... I believe it was when they fought the hero "13".

One more hint Aoyama know who is traitor

Not really though? If Aoyama had already figured out who the traitor is, but since to him everyone in class had given him the family he had always wanted... and a place to belong,... then he would do his best to try and stop the traitor from doing more bad things without exposing them. After all the traitor would also be a precious person to Aoyama and if the traitor was revealed, this could break the class.

There’s quite a few students even in 1A we hardly know anything about. Especially if we are also talking about 1-B.

Yes, and why would we care about them at all if they turned out to be the traitor? The main point of there even being a traitor is that it should be somewhat shocking, upset the reader and have a big impact on the main characters around them. If the traitor is just some "nobody" in class 1A or class 1B, then why even have a traitor? It would be pointless.

If you look at the roster of central protagonists and antagonists, almost all the main offenders have a counterpart:

* Deku - Shigaraki
* All Might - All For One
* Ochako - Toga

Only this isn't really that strict. AFO is also the main foil for Izuku seeing as how All Might has now just become Izuku's "butler Alfred". Likewise Himiko isn't strictly a foil for Ocacho seeing as how it was also mentioned that she liked Asui (in fact Asui were invovled in both scuffles the that Ochaco had with Himiko) and Himio herself actually resemble Izuku more than Shigaraki does as far as personality go. Both stalk their "love interests" and write down/remember things about them and even learn new moves based on the person that they are stalking. Also, after himio's qurk evolved it is perfectly possible that it will play a role in the future. Himiko does NOT copy a persons quirk, rather she transforms into the person that has the quirk. in other words, it should be possible for her to use OFA, or at least enter the OFA plain seeing as how she actually has the DNA of the quirk itself. Will Horikoshi do this? Most likely not. But what i am saying here is that the only thing that Ochaco and Himiko have in common that tie them together is Himiko's own claims about Ochaco... and those claims extremely suggest that Ochaco is the traitor. Even Ochaco wanting help and save Himiko could be viewed as her wanting to save herself.

 

[nectar]

Aoyama being the traitor would explain those chapters when Aoyama was acting weird.

Wasn't he acting that way to connect with Deku? He believed both he and Deku had quirks that didn't fit their bodies.

 

[Thatoneanimefan]

Wasn't he acting that way to connect with Deku? He believed both he and Deku had quirks that didn't fit their bodies.

That’s what it looked like on the surface, however that doesn’t explain blatantly suspicious behaviour. In fact, the very reason he even made that observation about Dekus quirk is because he’s monitoring him. That could also be why he made the observation about Ochakos crush before even she realised it, and why he doesn’t really hang out with other classmates because he is monitoring them and wants to keep his distance since he is the traitor.

I think what happened was that Aoyama noticed that Deku has OFA (he would know this if he is working with the Doctor instead of directly with the league themselves) and wants to get close to Deku because of it. Of course he’s not going to come out and say exactly why he wants to be friends with Deku as that would reveal he is the traitor, so he comes up with a half truth instead, because what Aoyama said about wanting to be “friends” because of what he noticed about Dekus quirk wasn’t even wrong.

So basically, I think Horikoshi wrote the scenes with Aoyama so it would seem like he is a red herring, that way it would still be a surprise when it is revealed he is the traitor while also not having it come completely out of nowhere.

Stuff like being “scared” in the camp wasn’t fear as much as it was guilt of having called the villains over to have them terrorise and potentially even kill his “friends”. It would also make sense if the villains themselves didn’t recognise him because he is working for the Doctor as opposed to them.

How does he know the doctor? Well thats because as a kid he had serious trouble with his quirk, and who’s the Doctor we know people go to when kids have issues with their quirks? Yeah, Ujiko. In fact I wouldn’t even be surprised if Aoyamas quirk itself was given to him by some fucked up experiment Doctor Ujiko did.

In the provisional license exam, Aoyama wanted Ida to leave him and have him pass the test without him and let him fail, and he even tried to sacrifice his own attempt to pass just to help Ida. It’s only out of sheer luck that this worked out for him. Why did he want Ida to leave him and let him fail? Well that’s because he is guilt ridden about being the traitor and doesn’t think he deserves Idas concern or care after what he did.

Not to mention that he is quite literally the ONLY student that we have seen acting suspiciously, when we have been told that there is a traitor. No way can that JUST be for a red herring, especially after everything I mentioned here.

Also, what point is there for Aoyama to become friends with Deku and why have the story focus on that in that way? Like what would be the payoff or why was it put in if it has no point in the narrative?
That’s because the entire point of them to become “friends” is so that it means something when Aoyama betrays him. That’s the only reason the chapters focusing on the Aoyama/Deku friendship make sense in a narrative setting and aren’t completely pointless.

Then I come on here and see the Aoyama stuff at the exhibition event, just when I was thinking of this Aoyama=traitor theory. This just makes WAY too much sense, and in my mind, Aoyama is 95% confirmed to be the traitor if there is one.

--- Double Post Merged, May 4, 2021, Original Post Date: May 4, 2021 ---

It would not be that much of a redirection though? Every single instance where we see Ochaco think, her thoughts could actually be interpreted as that of a traitor. Everu single time she takes an action they are "dubious" and potentially two-faced. As an example when she tried to convince Izuku and the others not to try and help Bakugou because he would be upset? While this might indeed be true that he would dislike such actions, if you think about it clearly... what kind of an argument is that? Don't save a persons life because they might be a little angry about it? Even Asui's reasons were better then since they were actually rooted in the law and questioned whether or not it what they were doing were actions of a hero. But the major ones are the thoughts she had when she was shown to think that she had to step up her game and not allow her feelings keep herself from doing what she had to. This was interpreted by the Internet as her deciding that she had to work harder to be a hero, but it can also be read as Ochaco being conflicted about being a traitor but steeling her resolve. Likewise even her interactions with Himiko does not negate any of this. People seem to think that Ochaco can't be a person that wants to avoid people dying while at the same time being the traitor. Look at Jin and Himiko. Himiko is a broken person that has given up and into her quirk while Jin was a guy that lied to himself because he was broken. Even then the two of them were never arbitrarily malicious and showed that they cared about their friends and other people. What I am saying here is that it is perfectly possible for Ochaco to want to save people while still having villainous intentions. In fact her saving people might even be something she does because she is fighting her own nature. As suggested by Himiko, Ochaco actually has a desire to drop people from a high place. Now you might say that Himiko is a bit off in the head, but what we do know about her is that she is a stalker that get inside of people's heads. We also know that Himiko is only able to use the quirks of other people if she understand them and exactly what makes that quirk work. Himiko wears a DNA shell of the person that she transforms into, hiding inside of their flesh. In other words, if a quirk gave a person certain desires then Himiko would actually know about it.

It has happened twice now. Himiko has said something to Ochaco that make the other girl get this shocked/angry look on of denial on her face. The first time was when she was talking with Ochaco about love and compared her to herself (suggesting that Ochaco was lying to herself and two-faced) and the other time was when Himiko suggested that Ochaco desired to drop people from high places. You only get these expressions on Ochaco's face when Himiko talks about her and not really when Himiko says other crazy stuff. No matter how you look at it, there is no real reason for Ochaco to react only like this when Himiko talks about Ochaco herself unless what Himiko said was true.

Another indicator that it is true is Himiko's reaction to Ochaco's denial. When Ochaco denies it instead of following up on it, Himiko instead has this bored look and then shifts the topic... in other words, it wasn't a matter of discussion since Himiko knew that Ochaco was lying. Why do I say this? Well, don't forget that Himiko constantly talks about how she understand the people she likes right? And how she wants to know more about them. Claiming that Ochaco wanted to drop people from high places and then getting a flat denial thrown in her face should actually have hurt Himiko a bit if it in any way made her think that she had been wrong about this. But Himiko does not show any such reaction... hence, this was something unlike other things, that she was completely certain of.

So yes, Ochaco should logically be the traitor. She is the only one that would make sense and she is the only one that actually would have a real impact. But as I have found out, it seems that Horikoshi sometimes decide to do the opposite of good writing simply because he thinks breaking expectations is good story telling. This is why it is possible for him to either entirely scrap the idea of there being a traitor (despite it having been perhaps the most popular plot device in the entire manga) or he might just make the traitor into some random character that nobody cares about. Don't forget that he constantly draw the people in Izuku's class in big colored pages despite most of them being more irrelevant than many of the other characters in the manga.
That isn't true though? The only thing you have going is that she is "slightly relevant" , that you don't know that much about her and that... she can turn invisible. Aside from that you have absolutely nothing. Now I know that Horikoshi make strange writing decisions, but why make a traitor and not leave even a chance of a hint in what they are saying? Ochaco on the other hand have plenty of hints and they keep on piling up. Again, there is even those notes where he wrote something along the lines of that he thought his original design was too obviously two-faced looking.It could also be explained by with him knowing who the traitor is and trying to protect everyone you know? As for weird, one of the weirdest things was his interaction/little talk with Ochaco where what he was saying could be interpreted as him basically telling her to stop being the traitor. The scene I am talking about is that one where they are hanging in mid-air... I believe it was when they fought the hero "13".
Not really though? If Aoyama had already figured out who the traitor is, but since to him everyone in class had given him the family he had always wanted... and a place to belong,... then he would do his best to try and stop the traitor from doing more bad things without exposing them. After all the traitor would also be a precious person to Aoyama and if the traitor was revealed, this could break the class.Yes, and why would we care about them at all if they turned out to be the traitor? The main point of there even being a traitor is that it should be somewhat shocking, upset the reader and have a big impact on the main characters around them. If the traitor is just some "nobody" in class 1A or class 1B, then why even have a traitor? It would be pointless.Only this isn't really that strict. AFO is also the main foil for Izuku seeing as how All Might has now just become Izuku's "butler Alfred". Likewise Himiko isn't strictly a foil for Ocacho seeing as how it was also mentioned that she liked Asui (in fact Asui were invovled in both scuffles the that Ochaco had with Himiko) and Himio herself actually resemble Izuku more than Shigaraki does as far as personality go. Both stalk their "love interests" and write down/remember things about them and even learn new moves based on the person that they are stalking. Also, after himio's qurk evolved it is perfectly possible that it will play a role in the future. Himiko does NOT copy a persons quirk, rather she transforms into the person that has the quirk. in other words, it should be possible for her to use OFA, or at least enter the OFA plain seeing as how she actually has the DNA of the quirk itself. Will Horikoshi do this? Most likely not. But what i am saying here is that the only thing that Ochaco and Himiko have in common that tie them together is Himiko's own claims about Ochaco... and those claims extremely suggest that Ochaco is the traitor. Even Ochaco wanting help and save Himiko could be viewed as her wanting to save herself.

Bruh, your “Ochako=Traitor” theories are so far fetched and take such insane leaps in logic that this reveal wouldn’t be “shocking”, it would just be comical and ridiculous.
A traitor reveal has to make sense first, then have shock value considered after. You have seemed to only focus on shock value and ignored everything else to the point where it’s more funny than shocking. Shock value only works if it makes sense.

 

[avietar]

Video going into why Nezu is the likely traitor.

 

[Cat Sidhe26]

 

[JazzMazz]

WHAT COULD IT MEAN!?!?!

 

[Thatoneanimefan]

Okay, even if the stuff at the exhibition is done for aesthetic purposes rather than have them be actual future scenes in the manga, Horikoshi does mention that he does take the characters and the relationships into consideration (like with the Ochako x Deku drawing) when he makes stuff like this, so it’s not just some random stuff that has no meaning.

There is no way that Horikoshi drew something specific like this and have it not mean anything, and we know that even if the exact scenes doesn’t play out in the exact way seen in the drawing, it definitely hints at future prospects in the series. This seriously suggests that Aoyama is the traitor, otherwise what would be the point of drawing something like this?

 

[Neala897]

Okay, even if the stuff at the exhibition is done for aesthetic purposes rather than have them be actual future scenes in the manga, Horikoshi does mention that he does take the characters and the relationships into consideration (like with the Ochako x Deku drawing) when he makes stuff like this, so it’s not just some random stuff that has no meaning.

There is no way that Horikoshi drew something specific like this and have it not mean anything, and we know that even if the exact scenes doesn’t play out in the exact way seen in the drawing, it definitely hints at future prospects in the series. This seriously suggests that Aoyama is the traitor, otherwise what would be the point of drawing something like this?

Probably because Aoyama knows who is traitor ( or strongly suspect certain person) and try to protect others? And might be in danger because of it?

 

[Thatoneanimefan]

Probably because Aoyama knows who is traitor ( or strongly suspect certain person) and try to protect others? And might be in danger because of it?

Don’t get why it’s “Aoyama knows the traitor” instead of Aoyama actually being the traitor.
Like he’s the most suspicious student and you still don’t suspect him even at this point?

 

[Newkerzy]

Probably because Aoyama knows who is traitor ( or strongly suspect certain person) and try to protect others? And might be in danger because of it?

Now this would be an interesting scenario. There are actually not one, but TWO traitors. And Aoyama is the one turning on AFO. At the moment, Aoyama is tracking Deku with the others both for genuine reasons (to protect him) and to cover-up his heel face turn. Him tracking down Deku wouldn’t be suspicious for AFO, but in reality he just wants to make sure AFO doesn’t find him first.

 

[Neala897]

Don’t get why it’s “Aoyama knows the traitor” instead of Aoyama actually being the traitor.
Like he’s the most suspicious student and you still don’t suspect him even at this point?

It was 150 chapters ago. If traitor would be relieved back then it would make sense. Now its not so much. Its kinda funny people jumping to conclusion now because of illustration(which in lq and not full by the way) when it was pretty obvious something is off with Aoyama. First of all theres no way Aoyama would act like he did in 167-168 if he was a traitor. Even if he was unwilling traitor, conflicted traitor and such. He practically would give himself away if it was a case. Second I suspect somebody tried to kill of Aoyama during school festival.

 

[Cat Sidhe26]

Second I suspect somebody tried to kill of Aoyama during school festival.

I won’t be surprised if the traitor kills Aoyama to silence him since Aoyama likely knows who the traitor(s) is.

 

[Neala897]

I won’t be surprised if the traitor kills Aoyama to silence him since Aoyama likely knows who the traitor(s) is.

I think he suspects one person way more than others ( and thats why he warned Deku) but still palps other students. I mean that talk about Black Shadow during joint training was probably to know if Tokoyami could get it out of UA territory.

 

[Thatoneanimefan]

It was 150 chapters ago. If traitor would be relieved back then it would make sense. Now its not so much. Its kinda funny people jumping to conclusion now because of illustration(which in lq and not full by the way) when it was pretty obvious something is off with Aoyama. First of all theres no way Aoyama would act like he did in 167-168 if he was a traitor. Even if he was unwilling traitor, conflicted traitor and such. He practically would give himself away if it was a case. Second I suspect somebody tried to kill of Aoyama during school festival.

1) I don’t know why you’re mentioned how long ago it was, so are you against there being a traitor at all? If so, then you’ve essentially debunked yourself because you’ve mentioned that Aoyama “knows” the traitor. How is that possible if there isn’t one?

2) It’s kinda funny how you assume my Aoyama=Traitor theory was based PURELY on the exhibition drawing when it absolutely wasn’t. My post went into extensive detail about why I think Aoyama is the traitor, and only at the end did I mention the exhibition drawing.The whole point was that the day before I was thinking about how Aoyama is the traitor, and then I came on here and I happen to see the exhibition drawing after. It fit in perfectly.

3) On what grounds can you say that Aoyama wouldn’t act this way if he was the traitor? Please explain yourself before you try to state something as fact. Yes, he could have potentially gave himself away, but he explained himself to Deku in a way that made sense, meaning that he can afford to act suspiciously and get away with it, which is why he is an ideal traitor.

4) Bruh, you accuse me of jumping to conclusions when you seriously just came out of the blue and said “someone tried to kill aoyama during the festival”, without any explanation whatsoever.

5) One of the reasons why I think Aoyama is the traitor is because I thought about many of the reasons against it, and realised that they could be explained away and could even be used as further explanation as to why he is the traitor.

Also, il say this again, but Aoyama can absolutely act suspiciously even in front of his classmates if he can explain his behaviour, which he does, so your point isn’t really valid here.

 

[Cat Sidhe26]

I think he suspects one person way more than others ( and thats why he warned Deku) but still palps other students. I mean that talk about Black Shadow during joint training was probably to know if Tokoyami could get it out of UA territory.

That Aoyama wrote to Deku “still water runs deep” hinted that traitor or one of the traitors is quiet person.