Discussion Who is the 9th Guild Master?

[Nemispelled]

But do you not see that a strategy to defend Ishgar wouldn't have even been needed had Natsu killed Zeref? It's not like he just decided to fight him for the fun of it, killing Zeref could have prevented the whole war from even taking place and no one in his guild would have gotten hurt. All the bloodshed and violence could have been avoided had Natsu succeeded.

You're right, if Natsu killed Zeref, then nothing else would have mattered.

Did Natsu kill Zeref?

That's where you go wrong. He didn't succeed.

And in this case, Not Succeeding = Blunder.

There is no denying that, what could have happened doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned because what already happened clearly was not success.

Actually it would have turned out fine considering that even Base Natsu broke out of Invel's ice just fine, meaning that with Igneel's power Invel probably would have gotten fodderized.

Natsu can't 1v2 Invel and Zeref at the same time. Even if Natsu does manage to fodderize Invel, Zeref won't be standing idly by watching.

You are also forgetting that Zeref has the book of END in his hand. He can literally pierce 9 holes in that book, and Natsu would not even have the strength to look them in the eye.

What Natsu did was foolish and careless, I really don't see any other alternative to that.

You can keep playing this "oh what a terrible friend he was" game all you want but that's completely irrelevant considering that he was TRYING TO END THE WAR. Again, he didn't go after Zeref just for the hell of it, it should be obvious that killing Zeref would have been far more beneficial to his guild mates than staying behind and helping defend. Telling his guild about his plan would have only hindered him.

Being a bad friend is irrelevant now???

And why is that exactly?

Natsu was trying to end the war, but he was doing it the wrong way.

How would telling his guild about his plan hinder him?? Are you even a part of the guild? What kind of friendship is this?

If I was master and anybody dared say that, I would immediately expel them from the guild.

There should be absolutely no reason why Natsu should hide the fact that he is fighting an opponent of the guild.

They are his allies, I think they deserve to know what he is up to.

If Natsu didn't want to work with his guild mates, he should have erased his guild mark before fighting Zeref.

And what exactly would have turned out differently had Natsu not gone alone? What would have changed?

You clearly don't get it. Natsu should have warned or told his guild mates about his plan. He went MIA and left the guild to figure out where he was. That's irresponsible.

He abandoned his guild and wasn't working as a team. He was operating alone without Mavis and the rest of the guild.

Natsu not going alone would also give him a better chance at killing Zeref. Not to mention, if something went wrong, they would be able to help him. Natsu is not invincible you know. He was not being a team player.


I bet if Gray tried to solo Acnologia next chapter, you wouldn't giving me the same script that you are now.

You do realize that apart from END, Natsu with Igneel's power is the only way for Zeref to die right? He could have soloed a top-tier Spriggan sure, but then he would have given up Fairy Tail's only way of killing Zeref and that would have been a far greater waste than challenging Zeref and losing.

That's why I've been telling you that Natsu should not have wasted it in the first place.

I was always an advocate for Natsu using Igneel's power to kill Zeref.

But I said, in the event that Natsu COULD NOT kill Zeref with Igneel's power...

At least DO NOT waste it and actually kill off somebody (preferably Irene tier)


Natsu completely wasted Igneel's power... he only killed fodders with it... smh.. if he really wanted to kill fodders that badly, he could have just asked Gildartz who could have done that in his sleep.

It wasn't plain common sense considering the fact that Natsu WOULD HAVE SUCCEEDED.



But he wasn't wrong about his potential nor was he wrong about the threat of Zeref. The outcome would have been the same regardless of Zeref's power because like I've repeated countless times, what caused him to lose wasn't Zeref being an almighty immortal dark wizard, it was because they were related in a way that was completely impossible to predict.



When did Gray's and Laxus's opinions start to matter more than Ezra's and Mavis's?



That doesn't make any sense in the slightest. The two scenarios are completely different because Gildarts has no chance whatsoever against Acnologia, while Natsu actually COULD beat Zeref, WAS beating Zeref, and WOULD HAVE beat Zeref had it not been for sheee plot convenience.

Alright, last time dude, I'm not gonna repeat myself again:

COULD HAVE and WOULD HAVE doesn't mean shit to me at this point.

The point is that Natsu DID NOT kill Zeref with it.

He should never have challenged Zeref alone in the first place.

So let me ask you this. Had Natsu actually succeeded, would you still find him immature and incompetent?

Yes. Natsu had the nerve to act of his own accord without the consideration of his allies and guild mates. It was an immature move on Natsu's part and involved a great deal of risk.

Natsu gambled a lot on that move of his.

And clearly I'm not wrong the way it actually unfolded.

Natsu completely wasted his dragon father's leftover magic.

What's funny about all this is that Natsu's actions were pretty much identical to Makarov's actions when he disbanded the guild. Makarov abandoned his family without telling anyone so that he could try and prevent a war with the strongest nation in the world. Is Makarov too immature to be a guild master because he failed as well?

What the f*ck is this?

Makarov GAVE a speech to the guild about disbanding it.

You can't compare him to Natsu because Natsu didn't inform anybody of his plans to solo Zeref.

Quit pulling stuff. Makarov was justified for his actions.

As the guild master, he was justified for disbanding the guild the way he saw fit. And he did it with good intentions and a good heart too.

He explained that his children's lives were in danger if he didn't disband it because there was a possibility that Alvarez was hunting down Fairy Tail members for Fairy Heart.

In other words, Makarov took precautions.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 12, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 12, 2016 ---

I still think Natsu is one of the worst choices to be a leader of anything but a small team, but this isn't fair. Didn't Happy stop Natsu from using his strongest attack because he didn't want Natsu to die? if Natsu had gone through with it, who knows what would have happened.

That's why I said Natsu shouldn't have tried to solo Zeref in the first place.

It was common sense and Igneel's power being wasted could have been avoided.

Natsu's decision to try to solo Zeref caused a number of problems, not just one.

 

[M3J]

Happy interfering is what caused a number of problems; if he didn't interfere, then Zeref would have either been killed or damaged badly enough. Happy deserves more blame here because he caused Igneel's power to go to waste. I know you probably answered this, but what would have been gained if Natsu wasn't alone?


In order of whom I think would be best suited to be the 9th leader:

Gildarts (at least if he stops becoming a nomad)
Laxus
Erza
Mirajane

Gray if he stops being irrational


I don't understand why anyone has a problem with Gildarts or Erza just because they stepped down. They did it because Makarov was still alive, and it's not like they had a problem or looked down upon being a guild master.

 

[Boomburst]

You're right, if Natsu killed Zeref, then nothing else would have mattered.

Did Natsu kill Zeref?

That's where you go wrong. He didn't succeed.

And in this case, Not Succeeding = Blunder.

There is no denying that, what could have happened doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned because what already happened clearly was not success.






Natsu can't 1v2 Invel and Zeref at the same time. Even if Natsu does manage to fodderize Invel, Zeref won't be standing idly by watching.

You are also forgetting that Zeref has the book of END in his hand. He can literally pierce 9 holes in that book, and Natsu would not even have the strength to look them in the eye.

What Natsu did was foolish and careless, I really don't see any other alternative to that.






Being a bad friend is irrelevant now???

And why is that exactly?

Natsu was trying to end the war, but he was doing it the wrong way.

How would telling his guild about his plan hinder him?? Are you even a part of the guild? What kind of friendship is this?

If I was master and anybody dared say that, I would immediately expel them from the guild.

There should be absolutely no reason why Natsu should hide the fact that he is fighting an opponent of the guild.

They are his allies, I think they deserve to know what he is up to.

If Natsu didn't want to work with his guild mates, he should have erased his guild mark before fighting Zeref.






You clearly don't get it. Natsu should have warned or told his guild mates about his plan. He went MIA and left the guild to figure out where he was. That's irresponsible.

He abandoned his guild and wasn't working as a team. He was operating alone without Mavis and the rest of the guild.

Natsu not going alone would also give him a better chance at killing Zeref. Not to mention, if something went wrong, they would be able to help him. Natsu is not invincible you know. He was not being a team player.


I bet if Gray tried to solo Acnologia next chapter, you wouldn't giving me the same script that you are now.






That's why I've been telling you that Natsu should not have wasted it in the first place.

I was always an advocate for Natsu using Igneel's power to kill Zeref.

But I said, in the event that Natsu COULD NOT kill Zeref with Igneel's power...

At least DO NOT waste it and actually kill off somebody (preferably Irene tier)


Natsu completely wasted Igneel's power... he only killed fodders with it... smh.. if he really wanted to kill fodders that badly, he could have just asked Gildartz who could have done that in his sleep.






Alright, last time dude, I'm not gonna repeat myself again:

COULD HAVE and WOULD HAVE doesn't mean shit to me at this point.

The point is that Natsu DID NOT kill Zeref with it.

He should never have challenged Zeref alone in the first place.






Yes. Natsu had the nerve to act of his own accord without the consideration of his allies and guild mates. It was an immature move on Natsu's part and involved a great deal of risk.

Natsu gambled a lot on that move of his.

And clearly I'm not wrong the way it actually unfolded.

Natsu completely wasted his dragon father's leftover magic.






What the f*ck is this?

Makarov GAVE a speech to the guild about disbanding it.

You can't compare him to Natsu because Natsu didn't inform anybody of his plans to solo Zeref.

Quit pulling stuff. Makarov was justified for his actions.

As the guild master, he was justified for disbanding the guild the way he saw fit. And he did it with good intentions and a good heart too.

He explained that his children's lives were in danger if he didn't disband it because there was a possibility that Alvarez was hunting down Fairy Tail members for Fairy Heart.

In other words, Makarov took precautions.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 12, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 12, 2016 ---

That's why I said Natsu shouldn't have tried to solo Zeref in the first place.

It was common sense and Igneel's power being wasted could have been avoided.

Natsu's decision to try to solo Zeref caused a number of problems, not just one.

Honestly this all boils down to one question, because at this point I'm tired of arguing against obvious bias.

How was Makarov justified while Natsu was not?

I wasn't talking about Makarov disbanding the guild, me mentioning that was just referring to that point in time. I'm talking about Makarov going to Alvarez alone without telling anyone and with the exact same intentions as Natsu. And he didn't give an explanation until afterwards.

Makarov: Left without telling anyone and didn't tell anyone what he was doing (except for Mest, but that doesn't really count), did it in an attempt to protect the guild, and ultimately failed

Natsu: Left without telling anyone and didn't tell anyone what he was doing, did it in an attempt to protect the guild, and ultimately failed

Where is the distinction?

 

[Nemispelled]

Happy interfering is what caused a number of problems; if he didn't interfere, then Zeref would have either been killed or damaged badly enough. Happy deserves more blame here because he caused Igneel's power to go to waste. I know you probably answered this, but what would have been gained if Natsu wasn't alone?

Happy interfered because Zeref told Natsu that if Natsu killed him, then he would also disappear since Natsu is Zeref's creation. Happy didn't want Natsu to die, that's why he interfered.

And I can't blame Happy for that, it was justifiable...

The problem is that Natsu tried to solo Zeref which he couldn't accomplish and wasted Igneel's power. Not to mention, he abandoned his guild who had to figure out where the hell he was. And that's just plain irresponsible and not suitable for a master.


EDIT:

As for what Natsu gained if he wasn't alone... two things:

1.) He wouldn't have wasted the guild's time when they were trying to figure out where he was and arguing about it. He was not being a team player, simple as that.

2.) Natsu going in solo was a major risk. He was lucky that Zeref didn't put 9 holes in that book. It was just outright foolish to solo the Emperor and a Spriggan. Natsu should have had backup that way somebody is there to help him fight in case something goes wrong. Natsu can't solo everybody, that's the point.

Again, for anybody who disagrees with me on this...

How would you react if Gray decided to solo Acnologia next chapter?

If you think that it is anywhere near ridiculous, then there is some major bias involved.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 12, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 12, 2016 ---

Honestly this all boils down to one question, because at this point I'm tired of arguing against obvious bias.

How was Makarov justified while Natsu was not?

I wasn't talking about Makarov disbanding the guild, me mentioning that was just referring to that point in time. I'm talking about Makarov going to Alvarez alone without telling anyone and with the exact same intentions as Natsu. And he didn't give an explanation until afterwards.

Makarov: Left without telling anyone and didn't tell anyone what he was doing (except for Mest, but that doesn't really count), did it in an attempt to protect the guild, and ultimately failed

Natsu: Left without telling anyone and didn't tell anyone what he was doing, did it in an attempt to protect the guild, and ultimately failed

Where is the distinction?

Dude... look:

Makarov TOLD the guild about disbanding it. After Makarov disbanded the guild, he is free to do whatever he wants. He is guild-less. He had no reason to act as part of a team because he was not in one anymore.

Natsu was a part of a team. He didn't tell anybody about his plan to solo Zeref in the middle of a war and failed miserably by wasting Igneel's magic.

 

[Takuan]

I don't think there's any point arguing about Natsu being right or being wrong. He acts selfishly and recklessly everytime, doesn't act as a team player, but there's hardly any consequences anyway.
I'd like these situations to have some consequences but this is FT and Natsu is the main character. That's not going to happen any time soon.

Remember when FT and Phantom Lord were at war, with Lucy being in PL's jail. She jumped out of the window kinda randomly, who saved her? Natsu, because he randomly decided to act selfishly, without telling anyone, without thinking about the fact that he was going alone versus an entire guild. BUT, there were no consequences, aside from saving Lucy's life. That's just how it is, he's the main character and whatever he does, he will shine anyway.
Being right or being wrong, i don't think that matters too much.

The same happened when he rushed in Tartaros Cube all by himself. He got there alone with Happy, got captured, did it have any consequences? None, aside from him being right there to save Erza.

Who cares about him being reckless. That's never going to really matter anyway.
I'd like his stupid actions to bring severe consequences upon himself or even the guild. As sad as it is for the guild, i just would like recklessness to matter sometimes, and that Natsu learns his lesson. But there's a 0.1% of that happening.

 

[M3J]

Honestly this all boils down to one question, because at this point I'm tired of arguing against obvious bias.

How was Makarov justified while Natsu was not?

I wasn't talking about Makarov disbanding the guild, me mentioning that was just referring to that point in time. I'm talking about Makarov going to Alvarez alone without telling anyone and with the exact same intentions as Natsu. And he didn't give an explanation until afterwards.

Makarov: Left without telling anyone and didn't tell anyone what he was doing (except for Mest, but that doesn't really count), did it in an attempt to protect the guild, and ultimately failed

Natsu: Left without telling anyone and didn't tell anyone what he was doing, did it in an attempt to protect the guild, and ultimately failed

Where is the distinction?

Natsu went there to fight, Makarov went there to talk or gather intelligence. Different.

Happy interfered because Zeref told Natsu that if Natsu killed him, then he would also disappear since Natsu is Zeref's creation. Happy didn't want Natsu to die, that's why he interfered.

And I can't blame Happy for that, it was justifiable...

The problem is that Natsu tried to solo Zeref which he couldn't accomplish and wasted Igneel's power. Not to mention, he abandoned his guild who had to figure out where the hell he was. And that's just plain irresponsible and not suitable for a master.

How was it justifiable? He's the one who wasted Igneel's power when Natsu could have ended Zeref (potentially). If Happy risked it, maybe things would have been better for the good guys.

But yeah, I agree. Overall, Natsu is far too irresponsible.

EDIT:

As for what Natsu gained if he wasn't alone... two things:

1.) He wouldn't have wasted the guild's time when they were trying to figure out where he was and arguing about it. He was not being a team player, simple as that.

2.) Natsu going in solo was a major risk. He was lucky that Zeref didn't put 9 holes in that book. It was just outright foolish to solo the Emperor and a Spriggan. Natsu should have had backup that way somebody is there to help him fight in case something goes wrong. Natsu can't solo everybody, that's the point.

Again, for anybody who disagrees with me on this...

How would you react if Gray decided to solo Acnologia next chapter?

If you think that it is anywhere near ridiculous, then there is some major bias involved.

1) I'll give you that. He hurt their plans.

2) True. At the very least, having another fighter with him would have given him some sort of backup just in case.

 

[Boomburst]

Dude... look:

Makarov TOLD the guild about disbanding it. After Makarov disbanded the guild, he is free to do whatever he wants. He is guild-less. He had no reason to act as part of a team because he was not in one anymore.

Natsu was a part of a team. He didn't tell anybody about his plan to solo Zeref in the middle of a war and failed miserably by wasting Igneel's magic.

Ok I'm somewhat confused on your stance. Is Natsu foolish because his plan was reckless? Or was he foolish because he didn't bother to tell anyone? Because if you're arguing both then by your own logic Makarov's plan was still immature and reckless regardless of whether he was justified in not telling anyone about it.

Also, Natsu may not have accomplished exactly what he set out to achieve but consider the fact that due to Natsu's fight with Zeref, Natsu now has that END tumor. So we should actually be damn thankful that Natsu decided to go and solo Zeref because had he not, END would never have been unleashed, Dimaria would be running amok right now and Lucy would have a knife in her eye.

 

[kemor]

I hope it's Laxus. Erza would be fine too, but I don't really see her taking this position.

Also I think they should stop with these numbers, it sounds depressing. NINTH MASTER. Nah, better keep it a little tighter like:
First - Mavis
Second - Hades
Third - Makarov
Fourth - Macao
Fifth - Gildarts
Sixth - Erza

 

[Axiomus]

There was simply no way Natsu could have known that Zeref was his brother, that he was END, and that Zeref dying meant that he would have died as well.

With that in mind, using Igneel's magical power to take out Zeref is a perfectly legitimate plan. This is Igneel's magical power after all, and Igneel was on Acnologia's level. Natsu isn't running around with any random power-up. He's running around with arguably the strongest power-up anyone can hope for short of obtaining Fairy Heart. Igneel's magical power would have dwarfed anybody else's, so why not use it to take out Zeref? Also, the narrative text pretty confirms that both Natsu and Zeref would have died if Happy didn't convince Natsu not to go through with it.

Spoiler: But in the moment that Zeref and Natsu were both to die, Happy's tears brought Natsu up short

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 12, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 12, 2016 ---

That said, I don't support Natsu being guildmaster. Being a guildmaster is technically a job, and I don't see Natsu as particularly wanting to do it. Erza has my vote for being the next guild master, mainly due to her being involved with Makarov in his last moments and the fact that she's being kind of left out in this arc.

 

[Selene]

Probably going to be laxus or erza

I can't see anybody else qualified to take over the guild.

 

[Nemispelled]

Also, Natsu may not have accomplished exactly what he set out to achieve but consider the fact that due to Natsu's fight with Zeref, Natsu now has that END tumor. So we should actually be damn thankful that Natsu decided to go and solo Zeref because had he not, END would never have been unleashed, Dimaria would be running amok right now and Lucy would have a knife in her eye.

Thankful that END was unleashed???!!!!

You know what, fuck this...

What's next??? We're gonna be thankful that Acnologia has FH so that he can kill Zeref???

Let me remind you that Lucy and Natsu would never have been caught by Dimaria in the first place if Natsu had not tried to solo Zeref, which caused Zeref to send a beam through the book.

I hope Gray will try to solo Acnologia in the upcoming chapters... I want to see people eat their words...

Ok I'm somewhat confused on your stance. Is Natsu foolish because his plan was reckless? Or was he foolish because he didn't bother to tell anyone? Because if you're arguing both then by your own logic Makarov's plan was still immature and reckless regardless of whether he was justified in not telling anyone about it.

How the hell was Makarov's plan immature and reckless?

He was no longer bound by the guild and he went on his own accord to negotiate with Alvarez.

His actions didn't affect anybody but himself. The old man is obligated to do what he wants. There wasn't a war going on and he wasn't doing something ridiculous like Natsu trying to solo Zeref...

Quit gasping for air and just listen to yourself for a second...

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 12, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 12, 2016 ---

With that in mind, using Igneel's magical power to take out Zeref is a perfectly legitimate plan. This is Igneel's magical power after all, and Igneel was on Acnologia's level. Natsu isn't running around with any random power-up. He's running around with arguably the strongest power-up anyone can hope for short of obtaining Fairy Heart. Igneel's magical power would have dwarfed anybody else's, so why not use it to take out Zeref? Also, the narrative text pretty confirms that both Natsu and Zeref would have died if Happy didn't convince Natsu not to go through with it.

Yeah, and Gray has Iced Shell. I hope next chapter he runs off to find Acnologia. He can Iced Shell Acnologia and solo him.

Nobody needs to go with Gray because Gray can handle it solo. He is more than enough, he just needs to cast one simple spell and Acnologia will be frozen for eternity.

This is Iced Shell after all. It's not like Gray is running around with some random magical spell.

I think casting Iced Shell on Acnologia is a perfectly legitimate plan...


...Can't fuckin believe people actually have this kind of mentality...

 

[Boomburst]

Thankful that END was unleashed???!!!!

You know what, fuck this...

What's next??? We're gonna be thankful that Acnologia has FH so that he can kill Zeref???

Let me remind you that Lucy and Natsu would never have been caught by Dimaria in the first place if Natsu had not tried to solo Zeref, which caused Zeref to send a beam through the book.

I hope Gray will try to solo Acnologia in the upcoming chapters... I want to see people eat their words...

Come on man, this is utter nonsense and you know it. Yes, we should be thankful that END was unleashed because as of right now we have zero fucking chance of beating both Irene and August and zero fucking way of dealing with Zeref afterwards without him. So you better be goddamn thankful that END's been released considering he's pretty much our only hope at this point of winning this fucking war.

How did the tumor have anything to do with Dimaria capturing Natsu and Lucy? Brandish could have just shrunk Natsu or slightly enlarged an organ or something to subdue him and Dimaria could have just captured the two of them with Age Seal regardless of Natsu being incapitated or not.

I'm not going to even address this dumbass Gray vs Acnologia example because I've already explained why it's flat out fucking retarded and if you're too lazy to go back and read my posts so that you can actually make an intelligent comment then you can fuck right off.

How the hell was Makarov's plan immature and reckless?

He was no longer bound by the guild and he went on his own accord to negotiate with Alvarez.

His actions didn't affect anybody but himself. The old man is obligated to do what he wants. There wasn't a war going on and he wasn't doing something ridiculous like Natsu trying to solo Zeref...

Quit gasping for air and just listen to yourself for a second...

Makarov's actions didn't affect anyone? Are we reading the same manga here? He left his guild in shambles and had everyone worried sick about him for a whole fucking year and half the main characters almost fucking died just to save his ass from getting killed by Zeref. Didn't affect anyone else my ass. He wasnt doing something ridiculous? He thought he could go to the strongest empire in the world and persuade them to not attack Ishgar all by himself by fucking asking nicely. Isn't it fucking hilarious how you got all butthurt that Natsu went to negotiate with August and yet when Makarov goes to the entire fucking empire to negotiate it's suddenly ok? I really wish you'd actually stop and think about the things you're saying rather than spontaneously spewing whatever retarded thought comes to your mind.

 

[Nemispelled]

Come on man, this is utter nonsense and you know it. Yes, we should be thankful that END was unleashed because as of right now we have zero fucking chance of beating both Irene and August and zero fucking way of dealing with Zeref afterwards. So you better be goddamn thankful that END's been released considering he's pretty much our only hope at this point of winning this fucking war.

I should be thankful that END is unleashed???

Sure, let Zeref's strongest evil demon be unleashed... This is fuckin retarded...

How did the tumor have anything to do with Dimaria capturing Natsu and Lucy? Brandish could have just shrunk Natsu or slightly enlarged an organ or something to subdue him and Dimaria could have just captured the two of them with Age Seal regardless of Natsu being incapitated or not.

How did the tumor have anything to do with Dimaria? Dude, did you even read the goddamn chapter?

Brandish enlarged Natsu's tumor which knocked him out. Then Dimaria oneshotted Brandish and took Lucy and Natsu as prisoners.

Natsu broke Age Seal, not END... Natsu only turned END after he thought Lucy was dead.

So Age Seal wasn't going to affect Natsu to begin with. Natsu could have defeated Enhanced Neinhart, Brandish, and Dimaria if he didn't have the tumor. Because of the tumor, he and Lucy were taken as prisoners.

What's so difficult to understand?

I'm not going to even address this dumbass Gray vs Acnologia example because I've already explained why it's flat out fucking retarded and if you're too lazy to go back and read my posts so that you can actually make an intelligent comment then you can fuck right off.

You think it's flat out fucking retarded because it says Gray and not Natsu.

Makarov's actions didn't affect anyone? Are we reading the same manga here? He left his guild in shambles and had everyone worried sick about him for a whole fucking year and half the main characters almost fucking died just to save his ass from getting killed by Zeref. Didn't affect anyone else my ass. He wasnt doing something ridiculous? He thought he could go to the strongest empire in the world and persuade them to not attack Ishgar all by himself by fucking asking nicely. Isn't it fucking hilarious how you got all butthurt that Natsu went to negotiate with August and yet when Makarov goes to the entire fucking empire to negotiate it's suddenly ok? I really wish you'd actually stop and think about the things you're saying rather than spontaneously spewing whatever retarded thought comes to your mind.

That was Makarov's goddman fucking choice. Nobody can restrict him of his freedom. He can do whatever he wants like everybody else.

Natsu personally affected his side of the war when he tried to solo Zeref and wasted Igneel's magic.

Makarov never did anything as ridiculous as that.

Quit trying to blame Makarov because Natsu is guilty of his immaturity.

 

[Axiomus]

Yeah, and Gray has Iced Shell. I hope next chapter he runs off to find Acnologia. He can Iced Shell Acnologia and solo him.

Nobody needs to go with Gray because Gray can handle it solo. He is more than enough, he just needs to cast one simple spell and Acnologia will be frozen for eternity.

This is Iced Shell after all. It's not like Gray is running around with some random magical spell.

I think casting Iced Shell on Acnologia is a perfectly legitimate plan...


...Can't fuckin believe people actually have this kind of mentality...

Iced Shell isn't anywhere close to Igneel's magic power. Igneel was on Acnologia's level, and Igneel was able to pin Acnologia and tear of one of Acnologia's arms. The strongest thing Iced Shell has taken out is Deliora. Acnologia's arm >>>>>>>>> Deliora.

Iced Shell was overpowered by Silver's magic. The GMG dragons can no-sell any of the human's magic, to the point that all their attacks were completely ineffectual. The parent dragons can disable thousands of face towers while they were active, and those things can cancel out magic itself. Acnologia is far stronger than any of the dragons I just mentioned. Iced Shell wouldn't do anything to Acnologia. Also, Iced Shell takes quite a while to cast. There's absolutely nothing stopping Acnologia from simply blitzing Gray as soon as he crossed his arms.

Zeref believe Natsu could kill him with Igneel's power. Natsu believed he could kill Zeref with Igneel's power. Happy believed Natsu can kill Zeref with Igneel's power. Even the narrative text says that Natsu and Zeref were going to die if Happy didn't convince Natsu not to do it. If anybody else other than Natsu had Igneel's power and wanted to use it against Zeref, it would have been a perfectly legitimate plan. The only reason Natsu couldn't bring himself to kill Zeref was because he would have killed himself in the process, and Happy convinced him not to do it. If anyone tried to ice shell Acnologia, Acnologia literally would have just cleaved a hole in them as they go to cross their arms. August knows every type of magic there is, and that should include stuff like iced shell. August is still be no match for Acnologia, and that tells us something. Zeref has had 400 years to come up with a way to take down Acnologia, and he still opts to gain an infinite source of magical power.

 

[Boomburst]

I should be thankful that END is unleashed???

Sure, let Zeref's strongest evil demon be unleashed... This is fuckin retarded...

Did you even fucking read what you replied to?

How did the tumor have anything to do with Dimaria? Dude, did you even read the goddamn chapter?

Brandish enlarged Natsu's tumor which knocked him out. Then Dimaria oneshotted Brandish and took Lucy and Natsu as prisoners.

Natsu broke Age Seal, not END... Natsu only turned END after he thought Lucy was dead.

So Age Seal wasn't going to affect Natsu to begin with. Natsu could have defeated Enhanced Neinhart, Brandish, and Dimaria if he didn't have the tumor. Because of the tumor, he and Lucy were taken as prisoners.

What's so difficult to understand?

No Natsu broke out of Age Seal because he was turning into END. The physical transformation may not have occurred immediately but END's power was being unleashed. If you're so confident that Base Natsu on his own broke out of Age Seal then explain to me how Base Natsu broke out of his anti-magic cuffs.

You think it's flat out fucking retarded because it says Gray and not Natsu.

I think it's flat out fucking retarded for reasons I've already provided, but if you want to just blatantly ignore them because you're so scared of being wrong then be my guest.

That was Makarov's goddman fucking choice. Nobody can restrict him of his freedom. He can do whatever he wants like everybody else.

Natsu personally affected his side of the war when he tried to solo Zeref and wasted Igneel's magic.

Makarov never did anything as ridiculous as that.

Quit trying to blame Makarov because Natsu is guilty of his immaturity.

Of course it was Makarov's fucking choice. But acting like his actions didn't affect Fairy Tail in any way is sheer and utter stupidity. Meanwhile while Makarov's plan was doomed to fail from the start, Natsu actually had a legitimate chance of succeeding and in fact he would have had it not been for plot convenience. You claim it's ridiculous that Natsu tried to solo Zeref when in reality HE ACTUALLY COULD HAVE. How is this so fucking hard for you to understand?

 

[Nemispelled]

Iced Shell isn't anywhere close to Igneel's level of magic power.

Where's the proof?

Iced Shell was overpowered by Silver's magic. The GMG dragons can no-sell any of the human's magic, to the point that all their attacks were completely ineffectual. The parent dragons can disable thousands of face towers while they were active, and those things can cancel out magic itself. Acnologia is far stronger than any of the dragons I just mentioned. Iced Shell wouldn't do anything to Acnologia, and nor has it been implied to be strong enough to take him out.

Iced Shell was never overpowered by Silver's magic. That was an ice clone. If Iced Shell was casted for real, Silver would not be able to do anything about it.

And even if Silver could, it's because he's an ice mage. Acnologia is not.

Excuses.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 13, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 13, 2016 ---

No Natsu broke out of Age Seal because he was turning into END. The physical transformation may not have occurred immediately but END's power was being unleashed. If you're so confident that Base Natsu on his own broke out of Age Seal then explain to me how Base Natsu broke out of his anti-magic cuffs.

No, it was revealed that Natsu broke out because of rage. END had nothing to do with it. That's just grasping at straws. Age Seal does not affect somebody on Natsu's caliber. I think you just struck a dead end.

Of course it was Makarov's fucking choice. But acting like his actions didn't affect Fairy Tail in any way is sheer and utter stupidity. Meanwhile while Makarov's plan was doomed to fail from the start, Natsu actually had a legitimate chance of succeeding and in fact he would have had it not been for plot convenience. You claim it's ridiculous that Natsu tried to solo Zeref when in reality HE ACTUALLY COULD HAVE. How is this so fucking hard for you to understand?

Makarov tried to negotiate with Alvarez to protect his children. What don't you fuckin get?

He didn't have a choice because he was worried about FT members being in danger.


Natsu had a choice. He didn't need to solo Zeref. It was unnecessary.

And Natsu wasted all of Igneel's leftover magic... the strongest magic that Ishgar had.

Makarov had a duty. Natsu didn't.

 

[Axiomus]

Where's the proof?



Iced Shell was never overpowered by Silver's magic. That was an ice clone. If Iced Shell was casted for real, Silver would not be able to do anything about it.

And even if Silver could, it's because he's an ice mage. Acnologia is not.

Excuses
.

Igneel knocked down Acnologia, pinned him, and tore off one of his arms. Iced Shell killed Deliora.
In terms of impressiveness: Acnologia's arm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The entire demon species > Just Deliora
Acnologia's arm in just his human form is lethal to a Spriggan level mage. Deliora couldn't exactly kill Ur in combat.

Acnologia can turn into a dragon, and dragons have massive resistance to non dragon slaying magic.
Being a dragon > being an ice mage.
Being a dragon means you can still function as an entire continent is being drained of magic.

 

[Boomburst]

No, it was revealed that Natsu broke out because of rage. END had nothing to do with it. That's just grasping at straws. Age Seal does not affect somebody on Natsu's caliber. I think you just struck a dead end.

How did I strike a dead end when you've failed to answer the one question I asked you? Or are you saying that an incapitated Natsu who wasn't even conscious when Dimaria captured him and who couldn't even move beforehand was able to use brute strength to break out of magic sealing cuffs that have never been shown to be able to be broken by brute strength before?

Makarov tried to negotiate with Alvarez to protect his children. What don't you fuckin get?

I don't give a shit what his intentions were, you yourself claimed eariler that it's the outcome that matters, and in this situation the outcome is that Makarov failed miserably and put the lives of his family at risk to get him out of an ordeal he put himself through.

He didn't have a choice because he was worried about FT members being in danger.

Of course he had a fucking choice. He could have done what you claim Natsu should have done and stayed back to help with their defenses instead of risking his life for an objective that was doomed to fail.

Natsu had a choice. He didn't need to solo Zeref. It was unnecessary.

Unnecessary? Natsu had a chance to end the entire war and prevent further bloodshed and you call it unnecessary?

And Natsu wasted all of Igneel's leftover magic... the strongest magic that Ishgar had.

The alternative was wasting it on a high tier Spriggan and losing any chance of killing Zeref permanently.

Makarov had a duty. Natsu didn't.

Fucking what? Weren't you just telling me that Makarov was guildless and therefore he could do whatever the fuck he wanted? Where in the fuck did this duty come from if not straight from your ass in a sad miserable attempt to try and prove me wrong without any thought as to how much sense it made?

 

[Nemispelled]

Igneel knocked down Acnologia, pinned him, and tore off one of his arms. Iced Shell killed Deliora.
In terms of impressiveness: Acnologia's arm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The entire demon species > Just Deliora
Acnologia's arm in just his human form is lethal to a Spriggan level mage. Deliora couldn't exactly kill Ur in combat.

Acnologia can turn into a dragon, and dragons have massive resistance to non dragon slaying magic.
Being a dragon > being an ice mage.
Being a dragon means you can still function as an entire continent is being drained of magic.

Iced Shell is a spell stated to seal any being which the caster intends. That is proof in itself. It just so happens that Deliora was the only victim of Iced Shell, but it doesn't mean that it is only restricted to Deliora.

Deliora could kill Ur in combat. Ur sacrificed herself before Deliora could. Ur lost a leg, obviously Deliora could kill her in combat.

 

[Axiomus]

Iced Shell is a spell stated to seal any being which the caster intends. That is proof in itself. It just so happens that Deliora was the only victim of Iced Shell, but it doesn't mean that it is only restricted to Deliora.

Deliora could kill Ur in combat. Ur sacrificed herself before Deliora could. Ur lost a leg, obviously Deliora could kill her in combat.

Dragons were also stated to be unbeatable by normal human magics. Dragons can function even when face wipes out all magic from the continent, and face is more impressive than iced shell. Also, iced shell takes a while to cast and has been interrupted multiple times before. There's absolutely nothing stopping Acnologia from just tearing a hole in Gray when he crosses his arms.

Ur could still fight without a leg, and she can tank Deliora's breath attack. If she wanted to run away and escape, she probably could have...especially since Deliora wasn't singling her out specifically. The only reason she didn't was because she wanted to seal Deliora for Gray.