Discussion Who is the 9th Guild Master?

[Axiomus]

You don't seem to get it.

I don't give a shit about whether Natsu could actually kill Zeref or not. If it makes you happy, I'll say Natsu can easily solo Zeref with Igneel's power.


My whole point in this thread is why did Natsu have to solo Zeref?

It was a completely unnecessary move, and because Natsu didn't put enough thought into it, he didn't take into account the potential conditions that were out of his hands (aka Zeref and Natsu's relationship).

The whole ordeal could have been avoided if Natsu was being a team player and complying with his teammates.

Natsu was not in any rush to kill Zeref and time was nowhere near an issue?

Why is it so hard to just fight with your friends instead of going straight for the Emperor first?

Ever heard of starting with the appetizer before going to the main course?


Natsu's actions trying to solo Zeref proved one thing in my eyes:

He is clearly not responsible enough to assume the role of 9th Master of Fairy Tail.

It's as simple as that.

All evidence and proof are in my favor here...

I don't care to argue about Natsu being able to solo Zeref or not.

If that's all you want to talk about, then count me out of this discussion.

I'm simply criticizing his actions, nothing more, nothing less.

You were making it sound as if Natsu going off to take out Zeref was the worst idea ever. I don't support Natsu being the guild master either, but charging at Zeref when you have Igneel's power to back you up isn't exactly the worst play a person can make. Now, was there a better play that Natsu could have made? Sure. However, I imagine that Natsu wanted to keep the people he care about out of harm's way, so I don't blame Natsu for wanting to take out Zeref as soon as possible. I also don't fault Natsu for not being able to predict that he was END, and that if he went through with killing Zeref he himself would also die.

To answer your question: Why not? He had the power to do so, and taking out Zeref meant a quick end to the war. Less chance for his friends to get hurt.

 

[Nemispelled]

You were making it sound as if Natsu going off to take out Zeref was the worst idea ever. I don't support Natsu being the guild master either, but charging at Zeref when you have Igneel's power to back you up isn't exactly the worst play a person can make. Now, was there a better play that Natsu could have made? Sure. However, I imagine that Natsu wanted to keep the people he care about out of harm's way, so I don't blame Natsu for wanting to take out Zeref as soon as possible. I also don't fault Natsu for not being able to predict that he was END, and that if he went through with killing Zeref he himself would also die.

Worst idea ever, I don't care. If you want to be picky about my wording, then I can change it to bad idea.

Regardless, my point was that it was a very irresponsible idea.

That stunt he pulled when he tried to solo Zeref basically proved he is not ready to be master.

I don't fault Natsu for not being able to predict he was END, nobody can predict that. But I fault him for trying to pick an immature unnecessary fight with Zeref.

There was no reason for that circumstance to happen and it was an irrational decision and move on Natsu's part.

To answer your question: Why not? He had the power to do so, and taking out Zeref meant a quick end to the war. Less chance for his friends to get hurt.

No, having the power doesn't cut it. The move was a risky move, no questions about it. Natsu did not think of the possible dangers associated with his move and factors that can cause his mission to go wrong.

Don't tell me Natsu is justified for saying "There is absolutely no risk in soloing Zeref".

That's absurd considering both Gray and Laxus disapproved of that stunt. It's common sense.

It's a pretty well-known tactical strategy to never try to take out the most powerful opponent on your own first, especially if the war has barely even started.

How many wars in history were ended by the assassination of the enemy leader after the war has barely just begun?

Ishgar was warned many times that Alvarez was a formidable force/foe... so how does it make sense for Natsu to decide to solo Zeref?

 

[Ebony Maw]

@Nemispelled I look at it like this, had Natsu not decided to try and solo Zeref then he would still have Igneel's power now, meaning that he could use it to destroy any Spriggan he goes up against or save it and then use it against Zeref when he has backup. Besides, getting rid of Zeref at the start of the war could literally be the worst move possible, his strategies have sucked so far so eliminating him could put a more tactically apt person in control. Getting rid of him would also just provoke Alvarez further, it would likely make them fight harder.

 

[Axiomus]

Worst idea ever, I don't care. If you want to be picky about my wording, then I can change it to bad idea.

Regardless, my point was that it was a very irresponsible idea.

That stunt he pulled when he tried to solo Zeref basically proved he is not ready to be master.

I don't fault Natsu for not being able to predict he was END, nobody can predict that. But I fault him for trying to pick an immature unnecessary fight with Zeref.

There was no reason for that circumstance to happen and it was an irrational decision and move on Natsu's part.





No, having the power doesn't cut it. The move was a risky move, no questions about it. Natsu did not think of the possible dangers associated with his move and factors that can cause his mission to go wrong.

Don't tell me Natsu is justified for saying "There is absolutely no risk in soloing Zeref".

That's absurd considering both Gray and Laxus disapproved of that stunt. It's common sense.

It's a pretty well-known tactical strategy to never try to take out the most powerful opponent on your own first, especially if the war has barely even started.

How many wars in history were ended by the assassination of the enemy leader after the war has barely just begun?

Ishgar was warned many times that Alvarez was a formidable force/foe... so how does it make sense for Natsu to decide to solo Zeref?

How was it unnecessary? If you had the chance to take down Zeref, why not take it? What do you mean it's a well-known tactical strategy to never try to take down the most powerful opponent first? If you're playing chess and you can take down someone's queen or go for a check mate, then why wouldn't you do it? The reason why assassination attempts don't often end wars is because they are usually unsuccessful. Doesn't mean it's never a good idea to try.

Obviously there were risks involved with taking down Zeref, but again having Igneel's power mitigated all the risks of being defeated in combat. The only real risk to Natsu was the fact that he would have died along with Zeref if he actually killed him, or Zeref could rip the book. The first one we've already established that Natsu had absolutely no way of knowing at that time. The second one is equally unknowable, and to be perfectly honest there's nothing stopping Zeref from poking holes in the book even if Natsu doesn't charge at him. It's a completely irrelevant point.

Neither Gray nor Laxus knew that Natsu had Igneel's power in his arm either, and so obviously they would assume he was ill-prepared to take on Zeref. But the fact of the matter was that Natsu wasn't ill-prepared to take down Zeref. He would have succeeded if not for the fact that Zeref revealed he was END, and Happy convinced him not to go through with it. This was not a circumstance he could control.

 

[Nemispelled]

@Nemispelled I look at it like this, had Natsu not decided to try and solo Zeref then he would still have Igneel's power now, meaning that he could use it to destroy any Spriggan he goes up against or save it and then use it against Zeref when he has backup. Besides, getting rid of Zeref at the start of the war could literally be the worst move possible, his strategies have sucked so far so eliminating him could put a more tactically apt person in control. Getting rid of him would also just provoke Alvarez further, it would likely make them fight harder.

Thanks man. This is one of the most truthful and logical posts I've seen in a long while to be honest...

Finally somebody actually sees the flaw in that strategy instead of being offended because they think I'm bashing Natsu.

It's true, never in any kind of war, has eliminating the leader first caused an end. You are absolutely correct when you said it would just provoke Alvarez. I really couldn't have said it better myself.

This is literally one of the best posts I've read in a very long time. It's no surprise considering you put a lot of effort into your perception and theories.

 

[Axiomus]

@Nemispelled I look at it like this, had Natsu not decided to try and solo Zeref then he would still have Igneel's power now, meaning that he could use it to destroy any Spriggan he goes up against or save it and then use it against Zeref when he has backup. Besides, getting rid of Zeref at the start of the war could literally be the worst move possible, his strategies have sucked so far so eliminating him could put a more tactically apt person in control. Getting rid of him would also just provoke Alvarez further, it would likely make them fight harder.

It literally would have changed nothing. Natsu wouldn't have discovered he was END, and so he would still be saving Igneel's magic power for Zeref. It would be a waste to use it against any of the other Spriggans before that time. Natsu purposely held back on using Igneel's power against both Brandish and Ajeel, so he would unlikely be using them against any other Spriggans - especially since he can arguably take them down without it. When he finally faces Zeref, Zeref would reveal that he is END...and we're back to square one. And if we're saying that Natsu takes on Zeref with a bunch of his friends, then it wouldn't only be Happy convincing him not to do it.

I don't buy that removing Zeref from the battlefield is a bad idea. First of all, Zeref is the strongest opponent on the other side. Any supposed anger-boost isn't going to outweigh this. Even if someone was more tactically apt, the whole reason they're going for Fairy Heart is to allow Zeref to take on Acnologia. Secondly, Zeref has had 400 years of experience and is actually portrayed to be a genius. Who exactly is more tactically apt than he? Even if they were, it wouldn't be by ridiculous margins. Also, it's not like news of Zeref's death would have reached everyone immediately. The Spriggans that were defeated would still have been defeated, and unless Irene sensed Zeref's death universe one would still have been casted.

 

[Nemispelled]

How was it unnecessary? If you had the chance to take down Zeref, why not take it? What do you mean it's a well-known tactical strategy to never try to take down the most powerful opponent first? If you're playing chess and you can take down someone's queen or go for a check mate, then why wouldn't you do it? The reason why assassination attempts don't often end wars is because they are usually unsuccessful. Doesn't mean it's never a good idea to try.

In chess, you try to go for a checkmate if there is little risk involved with that move. If the queen, rooks, bishops, and ponds are all surrounding the King, are you really going to go straight for it?

That's suicidal, I think that it's pretty well-known to never go for the most powerful opponent SOLO first. There is a major difference. You can target your opponent if you have backup. But going in solo is just stupid and lacks basic common sense.

Obviously there were risks involved with taking down Zeref, but again having Igneel's power mitigated all the risks of being defeated in combat. The only real risk to Natsu was the fact that he would have died along with Zeref if he actually killed him, or Zeref could rip the book. The first one we've already established that Natsu had absolutely no way of knowing at that time. The second one is equally unknowable, and to be perfectly honest there's nothing stopping Zeref from poking holes in the book even if Natsu doesn't charge at him. It's a completely irrelevant point.

If there were risks involved, then WHY couldn't Natsu just wait?

Why did he have to solo Zeref so quickly?

No, if there were risks involved, that was a clear sign that it was not the right time.

Neither Gray nor Laxus knew that Natsu had Igneel's power in his arm either, and so obviously they would assume he was ill-prepared to take on Zeref. But the fact of the matter was that Natsu wasn't ill-prepared to take down Zeref. He would have succeeded if not for the fact that Zeref revealed he was END, and Happy convinced him not to go through with it. This was not a circumstance he could control.

No, actually that's incorrect. Gray knew Natsu had a trump card.

But Gray didn't approve of it, which is obvious. Nobody would approve Natsu to solo Zeref, even if they knew he had Igneel's power.

Nobody would cheer Natsu on to solo Zeref... give me a break.

 

[Axiomus]

In chess, you try to go for a checkmate if there is little risk involved with that move. If the queen, rooks, bishops, and ponds are all surrounding the King, are you really going to go straight for it?

That's suicidal, I think that it's pretty well-known to never go for the most powerful opponent SOLO first. There is a major difference. You can target your opponent if you have backup. But going in solo is just stupid and lacks basic common sense.


If there were risks involved, then WHY couldn't Natsu just wait?

Why did he have to solo Zeref so quickly?

No, if there were risks involved, that was a clear sign that it was not the right time.



No, actually that's incorrect. Gray knew Natsu had a trump card.

But Gray didn't approve of it, which is obvious. Nobody would approve Natsu to solo Zeref, even if they knew he had Igneel's power.

Nobody would cheer Natsu on to solo Zeref... give me a break.

If you can go for a check mate, then yes. It's entirely possible to checkmate someone while the other pieces are in play. Scholar's mate is a great example of this.

Natsu wasn't worried about being defeated because he had Igneel's power. Natsu was worried that more of his friends would get hurt, and that's the risk he runs if he waits around.

Everybody knew Natsu had a trump card. Nobody knew that the trump card was Igneel's magical power. If I told you I had a trump card that can beat up Mike Tyson, you'll probably be pretty skeptical of me. If I told you that trump card was the fact that I can turn into the Hulk, that changes everything. Neither Laxus nor Gray knew that Natsu had Igneel's power. Also, if we're going to play the game of opinions - both Mavis and Erza trusted Natsu, and they're both guild masters and one is a genius tactician.

 

[Nemispelled]

If you can go for a check mate, then yes. It's entirely possible to checkmate someone while the other pieces are in play. Scholar's mate is a great example of this.

No, not when the King is being heavily defended. You don't go for a checkmate.

And who said Natsu is the queen on the other side? Natsu is practically the King, just like Zeref.

And one of the most common sense rule in Chess, is never to use your King to fight the other King.

It's better if Natsu had a queen and rook there to assist him and help defend him. That's the whole point.

Cmon, use logic. It was clearly not a good move.

Natsu wasn't worried about being defeated because he had Igneel's power. Natsu was worried that more of his friends would get hurt, and that's the risk he runs if he waits around.

His friends getting hurt??? DUDE, his friends were all in the **** guild waiting for his ass to come back...

They didn't even move out yet and they were still on their planning stage. The war hadn't even started for them yet.

If he wanted to protect his friends, he should have saved Igneel's power to defeat a Spriggan and not waste it... Goddamn.

Everybody knew Natsu had a trump card. Nobody knew that the trump card was Igneel's magical power. If I told you I had a trump card that can beat up Mike Tyson, you'll probably be pretty skeptical of me. If I told you that trump card was the fact that I can turn into the Hulk, that changes everything. Neither Laxus nor Gray knew that Natsu had Igneel's power. Also, if we're going to play the game of opinions - both Mavis and Erza trusted Natsu, and they're both guild masters and one is a genius tactician.

No, if you told me your trump card was turning to a Hulk, I still would not trust you to fight Ultron by yourself. It took all the Avengers including Iron Man and Thor (who is not even human) to take on Ultron.

Nobody in the guild in their right mind would cheer Natsu on to solo Zeref even if they knew it was specifically Igneel's leftover powers.

Lol, Laxus and Gray are more credible than Erza and Mavis. Erza and Mavis may have both been masters, but they are not good masters. One of them who is a genius tactician clearly has shown nothing remotely close to that and has been a failure one after another.

 

[Axiomus]

No, not when the King is being heavily defended. You don't go for a checkmate.

And who said Natsu is the queen on the other side? Natsu is practically the King, just like Zeref.

And one of the most common sense rule in Chess, is never to use your King to fight the other King.

Cmon, use logic. It was clearly not good move.





His friends getting hurt??? DUDE, his friends were all in the **** guild waiting for his ass to come back...

They didn't even move out yet and they were still on their planning stage. The war hadn't even started for them yet.

If he wanted to protect his friends, he should have saved Igneel's power to defeat a Spriggan and not waste it... Goddamn.





No, if you told me your trump card was turning to a Hulk, I still would not trust you to fight Ultron by yourself. It took all the Avengers including Iron Man and Thor (who is not even human) to take on Ultron.

Nobody in the guild in their right mind would cheer Natsu on to solo Zeref even if they knew it was specifically Igneel's leftover powers.

Lol, Laxus and Gray are more credible than Erza and Mavis. Erza and Mavis may have both been masters, but they are not good masters. One of them who is a genius tactician clearly has shown anything remotely close to that and has been a failure one after another.

Natsu is not the king. Zeref's plan doesn't stop at defeating Natsu. Zeref's plan stops when he captures Fairy Heart and defeats Acnologia. Zeref wasn't heavily defended either. He had fodders and a single Spriggan.

The more time you spend fighting, the more likely you are of getting hurt. If Fairy Tail fought a prolonged war with Alvarez, the chances of the weaker members of his guild getting hurt are much higher. Taking out Zeref can put an end to the war, or at least cripple the opponents. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

Again, using Igneel's power on a Spriggan would what would actually be wasteful. Natsu had chances to use Igneel's power against Spriggans, but he purposely held back on it. Evidently, he can defeat Spriggans without it.

Whose talking about Ultron? I'm talking about Mike Tyson. Defeating Ultron would be analogous to going after Acnologia, as Acnologia is the strongest person on the battlefield. At least, within the context of AoU. Zeref is weaker than Igneel, whom Natsu had the power of.

How many wars have Gray and Laxus won due to strategy? How many wars have Mavis won?

Spoiler: Mavis' statement

 

[Nemispelled]

Natsu is not the king. Zeref's plan doesn't stop at defeating Natsu. Zeref's plan stops when he captures Fairy Heart and defeats Acnologia. Zeref wasn't heavily defended either. He had fodders and a single Spriggan.

The more time you spend fighting, the more likely you are of getting hurt. If Fairy Tail fought a prolonged war with Alvarez, the chances of the weaker members of his guild getting hurt are much higher. Taking out Zeref can put an end to the war, or at least cripple the opponents. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

Again, using Igneel's power on a Spriggan would what would actually be wasteful. Natsu had chances to use Igneel's power against Spriggans, but he purposely held back on it. Evidently, he can defeat Spriggans without it.

Whose talking about Ultron? I'm talking about Mike Tyson. Defeating Ultron would be analogous to going after Acnologia, as Acnologia is the strongest person on the battlefield. At least, within the context of AoU. Zeref is weaker than Igneel, whom Natsu had the power of.

How many wars have Gray and Laxus won due to strategy? How many wars have Mavis won?

Spoiler: Mavis' statement

How is Natsu not the king, but Zeref is? Zeref and Natsu are brothers and Zeref is even stronger than Natsu without Igneel's power. So if anything, Natsu is the more vulnerable one (aka the King) than Zeref.

Zeref is a monster himself. His defense may not have been fantastic, but it was still a 2v1 against Natsu.

Zeref had Invel and a whole army of fodders while Natsu came alone. Cleary, Zeref is a good leader because he brought backup.

Natsu is the more inexperienced out of the 2 brothers, that's why he didn't bring backup. You can clearly see the difference in leadership skills there.


Your whole second paragraph is wrong. You spend time fighting along side comrades to increase your changes of winning. Not fighting alone... that actually decreases your chance of winning drastically.


Natsu using Igneel's power on a Spriggan is wasteful, but clearly not as wasteful as what Natsu did with it.

He didn't even kill the fodders with Igneel's power, he used his regular flames for that.

His kill count with Igneel's power is literally zero.


I don't give a shit about Mike Tyson. Dude is irrelevant and is a bad analogy. Ultron = Zeref. Acnologia = Beerus, God of Destruction.

Gray and Laxus actually fight their battles. Mavis doesn't. She just commands. Gray and Laxus are more familiar with combat.

Mavis is like the President in politics. Gray and Laxus are like the Generals of an Army.

And Mavis' current strategic operations have not added up with her past "supposedly" good track record and achievements. I call bullshit on her being a tactician.


Go ahead and have the last words, I don't see myself agreeing with you any time soon, and this discussion was not the original point of the thread. So count me out..

 

[Boomburst]

How is Natsu not the king, but Zeref is? Zeref and Natsu are brothers and Zeref is even stronger than Natsu without Igneel's power. So if anything, Natsu is the more vulnerable one (aka the King) than Zeref.

Because Fairy Tail pretty much wins the war when Zeref is defeated but Zeref doesn't automatically win the war when Natsu is defeated. He literally just explained this to you.

Zeref is a monster himself. His defense may not have been fantastic, but it was still a 2v1 against Natsu.

Zeref had Invel and a whole army of fodders while Natsu came alone. Cleary, Zeref is a good leader because he brought backup.

Natsu is the more inexperienced out of the 2 brothers, that's why he didn't bring backup. You can clearly see the difference in leadership skills there.

Completely different considering Natsu goes apeshit crazy when one of his friends gets hurt while Zeref doesnt care about his troops and the Spriggan 12 in the slightest. Besides, backup wouldn't have done shit considering Zeref can only actually be killed by Igneel Natsu. He'd only be putting his friends in unnecessary danger.

Your whole second paragraph is wrong. You spend time fighting along side comrades to increase your changes of winning. Not fighting alone... that actually decreases your chance of winning drastically.

Not when you literally have the ability to end the war and prevent anyone from your side from getting hurt.

Natsu using Igneel's power on a Spriggan is wasteful, but clearly not as wasteful as what Natsu did with it.

He didn't even kill the fodders with Igneel's power, he used his regular flames for that.

His kill count with Igneel's power is literally zero.

This is completely irrelevant considering the fact that the waste was to no fault of his own. Again, for like the tenth time, Natsu ended up wasting his power due to circumstances that were completely out of his control and were literally impossible to predict.

I don't give a shit about Mike Tyson. Dude is irrelevant and is a bad analogy. Ultron = Zeref. Acnologia = Beerus, God of Destruction.

If anyone has the bad analogy here it is you. Hulk fighting Ultron is not equivalent to Natsu fighting Zeref because Natsu actually is able to beat Zeref. I already pointed out this exact same problem with your Gray and Acnologia analogy but I should have known you'd just ignore it like usual.

Gray and Laxus actually fight their battles. Mavis doesn't. She just commands. Gray and Laxus are more familiar with combat.

So what? Do you actually have to physically fight in order to be good at strategy?

Mavis is like the President in politics. Gray and Laxus are like the Generals of an Army.

How are Gray and Laxus the generals when they've never come up with a battle plan or strategy outside of their own individual battles?

And Mavis' current strategic operations have not added up with her past "supposedly" good track record and achievements. I call bullshit on her being a tactician.

She's certainly more of a tactician than Gray or Laxus, and she showed that during the GMG. The only reason her plan didn't fully succeed there was because she couldn't possibly know about Kagura's connection with Erza and Sting losing Lector.

Go ahead and have the last words, I don't see myself agreeing with you any time soon, and this discussion was not the original point of the thread. So count me out..

The sad thing is that if you were actually able to support your claims with logic you wouldn't pussy out of a debate when your arguments are held to the most basic amount of scrutiny.

 

[Axiomus]

How is Natsu not the king, but Zeref is? Zeref and Natsu are brothers and Zeref is even stronger than Natsu without Igneel's power. So if anything, Natsu is the more vulnerable one (aka the King) than Zeref.

Zeref is a monster himself. His defense may not have been fantastic, but it was still a 2v1 against Natsu.

Zeref had Invel and a whole army of fodders while Natsu came alone. Cleary, Zeref is a good leader because he brought backup.

Natsu is the more inexperienced out of the 2 brothers, that's why he didn't bring backup. You can clearly see the difference in leadership skills there.


Your whole second paragraph is wrong. You spend time fighting along side comrades to increase your changes of winning. Not fighting alone... that actually decreases your chance of winning drastically.


Natsu using Igneel's power on a Spriggan is wasteful, but clearly not as wasteful as what Natsu did with it.

He didn't even kill the fodders with Igneel's power, he used his regular flames for that.

His kill count with Igneel's power is literally zero.


I don't give a shit about Mike Tyson. Dude is irrelevant and is a bad analogy. Ultron = Zeref. Acnologia = Beerus, God of Destruction.

Gray and Laxus actually fight their battles. Mavis doesn't. She just commands. Gray and Laxus are more familiar with combat.

Mavis is like the President in politics. Gray and Laxus are like the Generals of an Army.

And Mavis' current strategic operations have not added up with her past "supposedly" good track record and achievements. I call bullshit on her being a tactician.


Go ahead and have the last words, I don't see myself agreeing with you any time soon, and this discussion was not the original point of the thread. So count me out..

Yes, Zeref is literally a king and Natsu is literally not. Figuratively, Zeref's goal isn't to stop Natsu. His goal is to capture FH and take down Acnologia. Natsu isn't the most important target, and hence not the king.

Zeref literally told his army to back off so that he can fight Natsu. Not that it would have made a difference with Natsu using Igneel's power.

Natsu didn't need to use Igneel's power to fight fodders. Why on earth would Natsu use Igneel's power on Fodders, or even a Spriggan? He specifically saved this power to be used against Zeref. That's what he did with it. The fact that the kill count is zero is because he found out he would have died if he went through with killing Zeref and Happy convinced him not to do it, not because Igneel's power was inadequate.

Ultron is stronger than the Hulk, supposedly. Zeref is not stronger than Igneel. Bad analogy, Zeref's power level in relation to Igneel's is different. The Mike Tyson analogy is far more appropriate. I couldn't take on Mike as I am now. I stand a very good chance of taking him down if I had the power of the Hulk. Ultron is far removed from being a valid comparison to Hulk, and who the heck is Beerus?

Natsu fights his battles too. So obviously we're not missing in the combat experience department. Mavis is a commander, exactly. That's what she does, she looks at strategies and decides which ones to take. She had no real problems with Natsu's charge, at least nowhere near as much as you do.

 

[Ebony Maw]

@Nemispelled Thanks a lot man, your posts here have been great, I can see both sides to this but I personally agree with you.

It literally would have changed nothing. Natsu wouldn't have discovered he was END, and so he would still be saving Igneel's magic power for Zeref. It would be a waste to use it against any of the other Spriggans before that time. Natsu purposely held back on using Igneel's power against both Brandish and Ajeel, so he would unlikely be using them against any other Spriggans - especially since he can arguably take them down without it. When he finally faces Zeref, Zeref would reveal that he is END...and we're back to square one. And if we're saying that Natsu takes on Zeref with a bunch of his friends, then it wouldn't only be Happy convincing him not to do it.

First off, my bad, when I said that he could have used it to destroy Sprigs I meant in a scenario where they run into August/Irene (and maybe DiMaria due to timestop), they were pretty much screwed the last time they ran into August and it's looking like August and Irene are going to require multiple powerhouses to be taken down.

Destroying Zeref is certainly a tough thing, though I believe there may be a couple of alternatives:

1) A plan by Jellal

Jellal stated that his (and CS's) goal is to destroy Zeref and we know that Jellal is intelligent and a magical prodigy (the only people who know more magic being Zeref and August), I think it's incredibly likely that Jellal has come up with a theory/plan that might be able to kill him.

2) A plan by Mavis (This might be more likely given what she recently said on the battlefield)

Mavis is the only other sufferer of the curse that we know of so she should have some idea of how to kill Zeref, at the very least she should be able to come up with some theory. IIRC she was killed by Zeref's curse because he loved her more than she loved him, maybe the reverse is possible?

With the above being said, there likely isn't another way (or at least one we can predict) to kill Zeref and it's this that makes me think Natsu's plan was far too hasty as now they're in a scenario where they're relying theories to kill him when Natsu had something that had a decent chance of ending him. I want to be clear though, I'm not saying that Natsu is at fault for what happened when Happy (sigh) dragged him back, I'm just saying that he was too reckless IMO and that his decision cost him. He couldn't have known what would happen but it was foolish to solo Zeref in the first place given that he only knows one part of Zeref's skill set.

I don't buy that removing Zeref from the battlefield is a bad idea. First of all, Zeref is the strongest opponent on the other side. Any supposed anger-boost isn't going to outweigh this. Even if someone was more tactically apt, the whole reason they're going for Fairy Heart is to allow Zeref to take on Acnologia. Secondly, Zeref has had 400 years of experience and is actually portrayed to be a genius. Who exactly is more tactically apt than he? Even if they were, it wouldn't be by ridiculous margins. Also, it's not like news of Zeref's death would have reached everyone immediately. The Spriggans that were defeated would still have been defeated, and unless Irene sensed Zeref's death universe one would still have been casted.

First of all, Zeref hasn't even entered the battlefield so had Natsu succeeded it wouldn't have physically affected any of the battles. As for Zeref, his tactics really aren't making sense, UO put him in a perfect place (S8, Historias and 1 mil fodder) but Alvarez is actually managing to lose? Why didn't they send someone like August in and keep Neinhart and Invel out of harms way? About the Fairy Heart bit, I'm not questioning his motive, just his tactics.

I'm not sure if there is a better tactician than Zeref in Alvarez but I'd assume that Invel must be a decent strategist given that he's the chief or staff, though this is the same Invel that knew he was the reason Mavis was trapped and then went out anyway .

Had Zeref been killed then Invel, any of the Black Carpet and possibly Irene (via sensing) would be able to pass the message on and given how he's worshiped by the S12 and Alvarez as a whole it would almost certainly cause them to fight much harder.


Even with this all being said, I can see both sides of the argument, I just feel that Natsu's impulsiveness (which was displayed perfectly in his plan to solo Zeref) is a quality that would be awful for a guild master. The results of the plan don't really matter that much IMO, but the fact that he just went there without telling anyone is a huge negative in my eyes,

 

[Takuan]

MY GOD PEOPLE !!! BRING THAT TO THE "WAS NATSU RIGHT OR WRONG" THREAD !!!!!!

... Was it good enough @Emperor Spriggan ?

Sorry guys i didn't mean to interrupt, please don't mind me. I just, you know, mah boy Zeref has high expectations of me.. I don't want to disappoint.


Anyway...
... Yeah, i don't even remember the original topic.
Guild master. Well, I stand on my positions. I think Laxus and Erza are both pretty solid guild masters. I feel like I'd prefer Laxus to have that role, but on the other hand he's often a solitary, so I don't know. Not saying anything that i hadn't said before, just adding that so i'm not off topic

 

[Hermit]

MY GOD PEOPLE !!! BRING THAT TO THE "WAS NATSU RIGHT OR WRONG" THREAD !!!!!!

... Was it good enough @Emperor Spriggan ?

Sorry guys i didn't mean to interrupt, please don't mind me. I just, you know, mah boy Zeref has high expectations of me.. I don't want to disappoint.


Anyway...
... Yeah, i don't even remember the original topic.
Guild master. Well, I stand on my positions. I think Laxus and Erza are both pretty solid guild masters. I feel like I'd prefer Laxus to have that role, but on the other hand he's often a solitary, so I don't know. Not saying anything that i hadn't said before, just adding that so i'm not off topic

LMAAAAAAAO
This made my night Taku
Erza for next Guild Master

 

[xMage]

Everyone knows Lucy, Natsu, Gray at the moment are not able to lead anything, among the protagonists, Lucy is undoubtedly the most qualified.
Mages class S are all great candidates, not simply because they are strong, but because they are much more mature than the others today.
We all also know that Erza would be the most likely, although Laxus be much more suitable. Erza is a knight who loves to fight and scream, not a leader. Mirajane is mature for that, but it is very "sweet" for this position ...
The Gildarts're just never in the guild ... Not to mention that I want him to die, it would be very impactful the strongest of all dying.
Obviously if I were to choose one, Hiro choose Erza, but I would prefer them to put Mavis again in charge, after it is no longer a spirit and is immortal. I much prefer this than to choose one of them.

TRANSLATOR

 

[Riomy]

My money is also on Laxus.
Erza would be a good master, that I'm sure. But I think she's still lacking some maturity that Laxus has and that is needed to fill in the role.
Laxus has changed a lot and he really cares about the members. To me he's the best for the role.

Mavis is definitely not going to get back in her old position. She may be very fitting for the role but her past, her feelings and not to mention her curse makes this really problematic. She can't be in the middle of a guild with the potential of killing anyone in the room just because she cares about them. Not to mention that her mind is going to get taken over by the curse just like Zerefs. At least, if they aren't finding a way to break it. Although I'm pretty sure they will find one but that isn't going to change much in the overall situation. She's a support now, not the leader.
I expect her to be the one who makes the decision about who is suited best for the role, but she will not take it over herself.

 

[Axiomus]

Well, I support Erza as a guildmaster. She was there at the moment of Makarov's death, and she seems to be the one most effected by it right now. I like the symbolism that brings to the table. Plus, we already had her as the 7th gulld-master. I like 7, and Hiro likes 7. That's reason enough for me to be on the Erza boat.


@MLG Bradman
I'll keep it short: I don't support Natsu as a guild master. I just find people are being overly harsh on Natsu for thinking that he could have taken on Zeref. It was no genius move, but it wasn't some terrible blunder either. In all fairness, had it been anyone else but Natsu taking down Zeref with Igneel's power is a legitimate gambit. Either way Natsu was going to be trying to use Igneel's power to fight Zeref, and would have failed because Zeref can't die because that would kill Natsu as well. It just happened sooner rather than later. I believe Mavis has a plan to take down Zeref. I don't believe that Jellal does. It may be his goal, but I doubt he has a solid method of taking him down. As for defeating Zeref, you're correct in that it wouldn't have affected any other the Spriggan battles. But it would mean that Zeref would be gone now, and I just can't see that being a bad thing thing. Obviously Natsu would also be dead, but trading Natsu's life to take down Zeref is a fair trade considering Fairy Tail still has other capable members. They will no doubt receive a POF boost from Natsu's death as well, so this cancels out whatever power of feelings that Alvarez may have going for them. Personally, I think August will take over if Zeref were ever to be defeated seeing as he's already the leader of the 12, and the other 12 generally seem to respect/fear him.

 

[xXCHILLEYXx]

If i had to choose who would be guild master, i'll say Laxus without a doubt.

Natsu and gray hasn't shown that they are guild master material, and Erza better not be guild master cause i'll cry myself to death. Laxus has grown over the years and has shown so much maturity that it would be an insult if he doesnt become guild master.