Discussion Who is the 9th Guild Master?

[Brandish μ]

If this had been a thread a week ago, it would have been Laxus alone.

But now Mashima has created the potential for Erza to be Master, again.

I will say that I was annoyed that Hiro didn't let Erza stay 7th Master. Erza could have got development from that. But it wasn't in Hiro's plans because he probably wanted her to be a fighter in the war, so I get that.

But Erza pretty much handed the title away, just like Gildarts did. There's no coming back from that, unless there is a change in character. And it just so happens that there is a potential for said change now... because Erza witnessed Makarov's death as well as being the recipient of Makarov's last words. His words weren't necessarily "This is what you need to be Master" advice. Makarov might have said it to Erza because she's the most plot-important character there... or it could be timely words for Erza to hear before a 'shock development' with Irene.

IF this causes Erza to take on more of a 'parent' role than she could be Master.

The same thing could happen with Gildarts too. Perhaps witnessing what Makarov did might change his ways. For me Gildarts is a wise person, and he cares about the younger generation (as well as having the respect of everyone in the guild, only Cana talks back to him)... but it's his thirst for adventure that comes between him and the GM role.

So Laxus is definitely a candidate for me. Erza and Gildarts are potential GM's.

Mirajane, Gray and Lucy would also be fine. Natsu could be Master too if he grew up a bit, he's inspirational enough as a leader.

---

That said, I feel the role of Master has lost it's importance than it did at the start of the series. So, the criteria for this role doesn't have to be as strict as I might have implied in my post.

 

[Doughboy]

That said, I feel the role of Master has lost it's importance than it did at the start of the series. So, the criteria for this role doesn't have to be as strict as I might have implied in my post.

Yeah but its better to be this way. I like how the master isn't homebound to their guild and goes out on missions on and stuff. Like how Sting came out with Rogue to see off Team Natsu beating the Avatar cult. Guess in some aspects they should stay near or by their guild but that's not all they should be limited to.

 

[Nemispelled]

why them? Especially Gajeel?

Well, Gildartz was always a qualified master. Even Makarov believed that. So I have no doubt that he is "master-material". Only problem is that he is a wandering nomad and doesn't see the guild until they are on their deathbed.

But I was referring more to his personality and skill set when I said that he qualifies as a master.


Gajeel on the other hand... he always had the strength/power to become a master and his perspective on friendship and the guild has been good since Tenrou. Not to mention, he always took situations seriously, was emotionally stable, and was quite firm on his decision on certain matters.

I used not to qualify him as a master because I thought he was immature, but I think his immaturity changed in Alvarez Arc. I noticed a drastic change in his maturity when he fought Bloodman and the way he is defending the guild during the war.

To my knowledge, he hasn't made any drastic dumb moves or decisions (like Natsu trying to solo Zeref... that is the reason why Natsu doesn't qualify imo), so I think Gajeel has matured a lot over the past year.

As far as I'm concerned, Gajeel won't make a bad master, I'm not too sure if he would be an outstanding master, but he certainly isn't a bad choice for that position.

I don't think Natsu will ever be ready without significant mental maturation.

Yeah, that's pretty much why I said Natsu doesn't qualify as master. His strength/power as an individual and his concept about friendship and the guild is strong.

But he lacks the brains and maturity to become one. Like when he tried to solo Zeref.

I've been hanging on to this theory for a while, but I think that once Natsu gets rid of his "evil side" as END, then he will become a lot smarter. Since END is 400 years old, I'm pretty sure END is more mature than Natsu. So I'm betting that when Natsu is cured from the curse of END, he might keep that trait of maturity.

But idk, that's why I said Natsu is almost there and could potentially qualify as master by the end of the arc. When the arc ends and the evil side of END no longer exists, then I'll judge Natsu again.

Until then, he is close, but not quite.

 

[Boomburst]

Well, Gildartz was always a qualified master. Even Makarov believed that. So I have no doubt that he is "master-material". Only problem is that he is a wandering nomad and doesn't see the guild until they are on their deathbed.

But I was referring more to his personality and skill set when I said that he qualifies as a master.


Gajeel on the other hand... he always had the strength/power to become a master and his perspective on friendship and the guild has been good since Tenrou. Not to mention, he always took situations seriously, was emotionally stable, and was quite firm on his decision on certain matters.

I used not to qualify him as a master because I thought he was immature, but I think his immaturity changed in Alvarez Arc. I noticed a drastic change in his maturity when he fought Bloodman and the way he is defending the guild during the war.

To my knowledge, he hasn't made any drastic dumb moves or decisions (like Natsu trying to solo Zeref... that is the reason why Natsu doesn't qualify imo), so I think Gajeel has matured a lot over the past year.

As far as I'm concerned, Gajeel won't make a bad master, I'm not too sure if he would be an outstanding master, but he certainly isn't a bad choice for that position.






Yeah, that's pretty much why I said Natsu doesn't qualify as master. His strength/power as an individual and his concept about friendship and the guild is strong.

But he lacks the brains and maturity to become one. Like when he tried to solo Zeref.

I've been hanging on to this theory for a while, but I think that once Natsu gets rid of his "evil side" as END, then he will become a lot smarter. Since END is 400 years old, I'm pretty sure END is more mature than Natsu. So I'm betting that when Natsu is cured from the curse of END, he might keep that trait of maturity.

But idk, that's why I said Natsu is almost there and could potentially qualify as master by the end of the arc. When the arc ends and the evil side of END no longer exists, then I'll judge Natsu again.

Until then, he is close, but not quite.

Well I mean, Natsu wasn't exactly dumb for trying to solo Zeref was he? He actually would have succeeded had Zeref not revealed their relationship, so it's not like it's Natsu's fault that he ended up failing.

 

[Loke]

Laxus most likely. Erza if he dies.

 

[Nemispelled]

Makarov actually made the mistake, several times, to not trust his "children". The protective side of him is sure a great quality as a guild master, but it led him to run against Ajeel, when i think we can now all admit Natsu + Gray + Erza would be MOOOORE than enough to defeat him. Yet Makarov was shitting his pants.

I can see where you are going with that, but unfortunately, I think those 2 cases are a little bit different.

Makarov has no idea about the strength/power of his own children, especially after that 1 year time gap.

But Team Natsu (Natsu, Gray, and Erza) have been fighting alongside one another ever since they were kids. They, of all people, would know each other's power/capabilities more than anybody else.

And even though Makarov was worried for his children against Ajeel (any parent would), Natsu did something drastic that should have been an obvious wrong move. Both Gray and Laxus were against the idea of Natsu trying to solo the immortal black wizard, but even after witnessing that, Erza still challenged Gray in front of the guild.

It's not just that though, I think Erza is similar to Mavis in the fact that she can be emotionally unstable (like Makarov's death) and that she is too hopeful. In a dire situation like last chapter, Makarov was very well justified for using himself as a sacrifice.

Erza couldn't see that though. And to be honest, if it was Erza as the master, the only way too get out of that situation would be to use PoF.

On the other hand we've had Mavis that proved that putting trust into guild members can be rewarding even despite all odds (Gray VS Rufus).

Oh, Mavis puts a lot of trust into her allies... way too much trust in my opinion.

Like when she (along with Erza) trusted Natsu to solo Zeref.

The problem with Mavis is that she is similar to Erza in regards to how they win battles. Like last chapter proved, they don't know when to "take action". The guild was in pretty bad shape and Makarov took solid action to counter their enemies.

But with Mavis, she only makes plans... she doesn't carry them out. Clearly, FT had no time to execute Mavis' plan last chapter, that would only cause more casualties, but Makarov was wise because he knew that he had to stop it there before the berserkers had a chance to spill any more blood.

I mean, i feel like both of them (Laxus and Erza) would be great in that role. I don't really have a preference. But yeah my point is, i think Erza would be just as good as a guild master as Makarov. Might even be even better: she is able to stop crazy members (Natsu - Gray) from being too desctructive, something Makarov never really succeeded in. (begining of the series, Erza was scarier than Makarov for instance). She can also be wilder than Makarov who appeared way too shy lately.

I can see where you are going, but in my opinion, I just can't qualify Erza yet. She may have good intentions and a good heart, but I think she would have trouble when it comes to taking action.

As with stopping crazy members like Gray and Natsu, I think that it is mostly for comedic purposes. Erza couldn't stop Gray from continuing the S-Class mission against Deliora on Galuna Island.

Although Erza does have good authority overall, I think that her indecisive and emotional behavior would make it difficult for me to deem her a good master.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 12, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 12, 2016 ---

Well I mean, Natsu wasn't exactly dumb for trying to solo Zeref was he? He actually would have succeeded had Zeref not revealed their relationship, so it's not like it's Natsu's fault that he ended up failing.

I honestly don't think that their relationship was a factor for Natsu not being able to kill Zeref. I think Natsu just simply couldn't kill Zeref with one spell (which should have been obvious imo).

I believe that it was sort of a miscalculation on Natsu's part.

Natsu was a bit too overconfident because that was the first time he had Igneel's power. I know that Natsu's bond with Igneel is strong, but some common sense should have told him that it was a pretty risky move to solo the immortal black wizard without any backup (like Gildartz or Laxus).

Natsu practically wasted Igneel's power because he failed to kill Zeref and didn't make a dent in Alvarez's forces overall.

Igneel's power could probably have been enough to solo a top tier Spriggan like Irene + Enhanced Neinhart.

 

[M3J]

Well, Gildartz was always a qualified master. Even Makarov believed that. So I have no doubt that he is "master-material". Only problem is that he is a wandering nomad and doesn't see the guild until they are on their deathbed.

But I was referring more to his personality and skill set when I said that he qualifies as a master.


Gajeel on the other hand... he always had the strength/power to become a master and his perspective on friendship and the guild has been good since Tenrou. Not to mention, he always took situations seriously, was emotionally stable, and was quite firm on his decision on certain matters.

I used not to qualify him as a master because I thought he was immature, but I think his immaturity changed in Alvarez Arc. I noticed a drastic change in his maturity when he fought Bloodman and the way he is defending the guild during the war.

To my knowledge, he hasn't made any drastic dumb moves or decisions (like Natsu trying to solo Zeref... that is the reason why Natsu doesn't qualify imo), so I think Gajeel has matured a lot over the past year.

As far as I'm concerned, Gajeel won't make a bad master, I'm not too sure if he would be an outstanding master, but he certainly isn't a bad choice for that position.

Main reason why I questioned Gildarts is because he's a nomad, otherwise I think he's a master material as well. But I think that's the only reason why he'd be a bad choice, at least his carefree personality doesn't take away his ability to lead. He and Laxus would be my top choices, honestly.

I don't think Gajeel can be a good master until he fixes his social skills, at the very least. Other than that, I dunno.

Yeah, that's pretty much why I said Natsu doesn't qualify as master. His strength/power as an individual and his concept about friendship and the guild is strong.

But he lacks the brains and maturity to become one. Like when he tried to solo Zeref.

I've been hanging on to this theory for a while, but I think that once Natsu gets rid of his "evil side" as END, then he will become a lot smarter. Since END is 400 years old, I'm pretty sure END is more mature than Natsu. So I'm betting that when Natsu is cured from the curse of END, he might keep that trait of maturity.

But idk, that's why I said Natsu is almost there and could potentially qualify as master by the end of the arc. When the arc ends and the evil side of END no longer exists, then I'll judge Natsu again.

Until then, he is close, but not quite.

My issue with you putting him on that list is that he's nowhere near close to being ready. And to add on to what you said, he also lacks the temperament to be a leader of any kind. It'll honestly take a lot for me to think he'll be even remotely ready to become a master.

 

[Nemispelled]

I don't think Gajeel can be a good master until he fixes his social skills, at the very least. Other than that, I dunno.

Lol, I don't think his social skills are that bad. Sure, he isn't as motivational as Erza, but in my honest opinion, I think Gajeel's tone is better than Erza. But, fair enough, I get your point.

My issue with you putting him on that list is that he's nowhere near close to being ready. And to add on to what you said, he also lacks the temperament to be a leader of any kind. It'll honestly take a lot for me to think he'll be even remotely ready to become a master.

Maybe, I can't disagree with you there. Natsu does have a major problem with his temperament, that I don't doubt. I think his only major problem would be his maturity level and his brains.

If END somehow fixes that, I might consider him qualified to be a master. Even so, he wouldn't be the best choice for master, but as far as I'm concerned, he would be qualified enough to lead.

 

[M3J]

Gajeel still comes across as an asshole though, and that's not good for the guild. I imagine many people would be pissed off with his asshole attitude.

I don't think END would fix that, especially since END is Natsu, who was transported 400 years into the future. I don't think Natsu will be qualified to lead without major development.

 

[Boomburst]

I can see where you are going with that, but unfortunately, I think those 2 cases are a little bit different.

Makarov has no idea about the strength/power of his own children, especially after that 1 year time gap.

But Team Natsu (Natsu, Gray, and Erza) have been fighting alongside one another ever since they were kids. They, of all people, would know each other's power/capabilities more than anybody else.

And even though Makarov was worried for his children against Ajeel (any parent would), Natsu did something drastic that should have been an obvious wrong move. Both Gray and Laxus were against the idea of Natsu trying to solo the immortal black wizard, but even after witnessing that, Erza still challenged Gray in front of the guild.

It's not just that though, I think Erza is similar to Mavis in the fact that she can be emotionally unstable (like Makarov's death) and that she is too hopeful. In a dire situation like last chapter, Makarov was very well justified for using himself as a sacrifice.

Erza couldn't see that though. And to be honest, if it was Erza as the master, the only way too get out of that situation would be to use PoF.




Oh, Mavis puts a lot of trust into her allies... way too much trust in my opinion.

Like when she (along with Erza) trusted Natsu to solo Zeref.

The problem with Mavis is that she is similar to Erza in regards to how they win battles. Like last chapter proved, they don't know when to "take action". The guild was in pretty bad shape and Makarov took solid action to counter their enemies.

But with Mavis, she only makes plans... she doesn't carry them out. Clearly, FT had no time to execute Mavis' plan last chapter, that would only cause more casualties, but Makarov was wise because he knew that he had to stop it there before the berserkers had a chance to spill any more blood.





I can see where you are going, but in my opinion, I just can't qualify Erza yet. She may have good intentions and a good heart, but I think she would have trouble when it comes to taking action.

As with stopping crazy members like Gray and Natsu, I think that it is mostly for comedic purposes. Erza couldn't stop Gray from continuing the S-Class mission against Deliora on Galuna Island.

Although Erza does have good authority overall, I think that her indecisive and emotional behavior would make it difficult for me to deem her a good master.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 12, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 12, 2016 ---

I honestly don't think that their relationship was a factor for Natsu not being able to kill Zeref. I think Natsu just simply couldn't kill Zeref with one spell (which should have been obvious imo).

I believe that it was sort of a miscalculation on Natsu's part.

Natsu was a bit too overconfident because that was the first time he had Igneel's power. I know that Natsu's bond with Igneel is strong, but some common sense should have told him that it was a pretty risky move to solo the immortal black wizard without any backup (like Gildartz or Laxus).

Natsu practically wasted Igneel's power because he failed to kill Zeref and didn't make a dent in Alvarez's forces overall.

Igneel's power could probably have been enough to solo a top tier Spriggan like Irene + Enhanced Neinhart.

It's not that Natsu was unable to kill Zeref because he wasn't strong enough, Zeref himself admitted that Igneel's power could kill him and the whole reason he divulged all this information to Natsu in the first place was because he thought he was going to die. He failed because Happy prevented Natsu from landing the finishing blow and by that point Natsu had used up his power. If Happy hadn't done that then Natsu would have succeeded.

 

[Spirit]

Laxus.
He deserves it after developing so much and coming so far... I want a timeskip epilogue in the end where Laxus has a beard! :Arf

 

[Nemispelled]

It's not that Natsu was unable to kill Zeref because he wasn't strong enough, Zeref himself admitted that Igneel's power could kill him and the whole reason he divulged all this information to Natsu in the first place was because he thought he was going to die. He failed because Happy prevented Natsu from landing the finishing blow and by that point Natsu had used up his power. If Happy hadn't done that then Natsu would have succeeded.

That doesn't matter. Natsu had the intention of flying straight towards Zeref to accomplish one goal. And he couldn't do what he set out to.

And Zeref didn't look anywhere close to dead even after all of the previous spells. There is no guarantee that Natsu's last shot would have worked either, Zeref only said that it could potentially kill an immortal.

Zeref told Natsu about their relationship because he wanted to, not because he was trying to get out of dying. In fact, he wanted to die.

Once Natsu activated Igneel's leftover power, he should have finished what he started. Even if it was going against Happy, Igneel's leftover magic shouldn't have gone out the window like that.

The best thing was not to challenge Zeref alone in the first place.

 

[Boomburst]

That doesn't matter. Natsu had the intention of flying straight towards Zeref to accomplish one goal. And he couldn't do what he set out to.

I still fail to see how this is Natsu's fault or how he made a dumb decision.

And Zeref didn't look anywhere close to dead even after all of the previous spells. There is no guarantee that Natsu's last shot would have worked either, Zeref only said that it could potentially kill an immortal.

The implications were pretty obvious that Zeref would have died had Natsu landed his attack. Again, even Zeref himself thought he was going to die, and obviously he has a better understanding of his own mortality than either of us.

Zeref told Natsu about their relationship because he wanted to, not because he was trying to get out of dying. In fact, he wanted to die.

I never said it was to get out of dying, I said that he told Natsu because he was going to die. He wanted to make sure that Natsu knew about his history and his past while he still had the chance.

Once Natsu activated Igneel's leftover power, he should have finished what he started. Even if it was going against Happy, Igneel's leftover magic shouldn't have gone out the window like that.

You make it sound like Natsu just decided to waste the rest of his magic power. He put all of his remaining strength into his last attack, it's not his fault it didn't connect.

The best thing was not to challenge Zeref alone in the first place.

Well of course this is easy for you to say considering you already know the outcome of the battle, but how could Natsu have possibly predicted what would happen? My point is that you make it sound like Natsu was stupid for challenging Zeref when he lost to no fault of his own and would have actually succeeded had it not been for a relationship that no one had any idea existed. Blaming the outcome on Natsu's recklessness is completely unfair and absurd considering that it was only due to plot that he lost.

 

[Nemispelled]

I still fail to see how this is Natsu's fault or how he made a dumb decision.

This is precisely Natsu's fault and dumb decision because he just wasted one of the strongest magic currently because he rushed in without thinking.

He knew he was going up against the immortal evil black wizard, the one responsible for sufferings of centuries... and yet he was so confident that he decided to go in solo without backup or preparations.

He didn't even tell his own guild mates what his plan was and what he was doing... please, there should be no excuse for that kind of behavior.

The implications were pretty obvious that Zeref would have died had Natsu landed his attack. Again, even Zeref himself thought he was going to die, and obviously he has a better understanding of his own mortality than either of us.

Even if the last move could kill Zeref... is that what Natsu did? No.

The fact is that Natsu didn't finish what he started, which was a major blunder considering he wasted one of his only chances of taking down Zeref.

Also, Natsu 3 or 4 Igneel-powered hits before his "finishing blow" did nothing to severely injure Zeref. And I am expected to put all my hopes in that last move?

Zeref acknowledged that Igneel's power was likely strong enough to kill him.

But you are forgetting that what Natsu possessed was but of a fraction of Igneel's dying power. It was only leftover magic.

You make it sound like Natsu just decided to waste the rest of his magic power. He put all of his remaining strength into his last attack, it's not his fault it didn't connect.

He practically decided to waste Igneel's power the moment he challenged Zeref in a 1v1.

That is precisely what I'm saying. Anybody with decent common sense should know not to solo an immortal like Zeref.

I'm not saying it's his fault that it didn't connect.

I'm saying it's his fault for deciding to solo Zeref in the first place.

Well of course this is easy for you to say considering you already know the outcome of the battle, but how could Natsu have possibly predicted what would happen? My point is that you make it sound like Natsu was stupid for challenging Zeref when he lost to no fault of his own and would have actually succeeded had it not been for a relationship that no one had any idea existed. Blaming the outcome on Natsu's recklessness is completely unfair and absurd considering that it was only due to plot that he lost.

That's wrong.

You can go back into the archives if you want to. I remember specifically that, on that week when the chapter came out, I was the first to criticize for Natsu's blunder. Ask anybody here that was present at the time and they would tell you.

Before the chapter of Natsu's failure came out, I criticized 3 people for "Natsu's mistake". The three people were Natsu, Erza, and Mavis.

Chapter 463 "Black Carpet" was what made me lose major respect for Natsu, Erza, and Mavis... but especially Erza and Mavis.

Even before I knew if Natsu was gonna succeed or not, I left a review stating that it was the dumbest decision that I've ever seen a person make.

After the timeskip, I actually gave Natsu the benefit of the doubt that he had grown a lot more mature... but after that move with deciding to solo Zeref, I immediately took back my words and stated that Natsu was indeed as immature as he was before.

If he hadn't made that decision to solo Zeref, I would have said that Natsu qualifies as a good 9th Guild Master of FT, but clearly that isn't the case in this thread because of that wrong move he made against Zeref.

 

[Boomburst]

This is precisely Natsu's fault and dumb decision because he just wasted one of the strongest magic currently because he rushed in without thinking.

He knew he was going up against the immortal evil black wizard, the one responsible for sufferings of centuries... and yet he was so confident that he decided to go in solo without backup or preparations.

I'm sorry but this is just complete and utter nonsense. Natsu had no preparations? He literally spent ten fucking months training to harness Igneel's power to use it against Zeref. Natsu went in without back up? So fucking what? How would back up have helped in any way? Zeref can't be killed by brute strength and all the back up in the world wouldn't have prevented Happy from stopping Natsu.

Sure he ended up wasting that power but it's not like it was a plan doomed to fail no matter what. You blatantly ignore the fact that the plan was actually going to work had Zeref not revealed the whole relationship thing. Zeref being this evil all-powerful immortal means absolutely jack shit because it wasn't Zeref's immortality that caused Natsu's plan to fail, it was Zeref's relationship with Natsu, something that was completely impossible to predict and something that was completely out of Natsu's control.

He didn't even tell his own guild mates what his plan was and what he was doing... please, there should be no excuse for that kind of behavior.

And why should he have told his guild mates? What in the fuck would that have accomplished? They'd either discourage him from going or they'd go with him and just get in the way. What would the point be of telling them?

Even if the last move could kill Zeref... is that what Natsu did? No.

The fact is that Natsu didn't finish what he started, which was a major blunder considering he wasted one of his only chances of taking down Zeref.

Do you know what the phrase "finish what he started" even means? The phrase is used when someone DELIBERATELY decides to not complete their objective. Natsu didn't have a fucking choice, he was stopped by force. And you fail to realize that as long as Happy is there with Natsu, the result would have been the same regardless of when Natsu decided to confront Zeref.

Also, Natsu 3 or 4 Igneel-powered hits before his "finishing blow" did nothing to severely injure Zeref. And I am expected to put all my hopes in that last move?

Zeref was getting the absolute shit stomped out of him the entire battle so yes, you are.

Zeref acknowledged that Igneel's power was likely strong enough to kill him.

But you are forgetting that what Natsu possessed was but of a fraction of Igneel's dying power. It was only leftover magic.

Oh come on, now that's just absurd. Zeref clearly meant the power that Natsu had and not literally Igneel's power, and even if he didn't there are plenty of other instances in the battle where he makes it clear that Natsu is strong enough to kill him. Now you're just grasping at straws.

He practically decided to waste Igneel's power the moment he challenged Zeref in a 1v1.

It could have been a 1 v 100 and it wouldn't have made a difference. Only Natsu with Igneel's power is able to actually harm Zeref. Anything else from anyone else would do jack shit.

That is precisely what I'm saying. Anybody with decent common sense should know not to solo an immortal like Zeref.

I'm not saying it's his fault that it didn't connect.

I'm saying it's his fault for deciding to solo Zeref in the first place.

Again, Zeref's immortality had jack shit to do with Natsu losing, the reason he lost was Zeref revealing their relationship.

That's wrong.

You can go back into the archives if you want to. I remember specifically that, on that week when the chapter came out, I was the first to criticize for Natsu's blunder. Ask anybody here that was present at the time and they would tell you.

Before the chapter of Natsu's failure came out, I criticized 3 people for "Natsu's mistake". The three people were Natsu, Erza, and Mavis.

Chapter 463 "Black Carpet" was what made me lose major respect for Natsu, Erza, and Mavis... but especially Erza and Mavis.

Even before I knew if Natsu was gonna succeed or not, I left a review stating that it was the dumbest decision that I've ever seen a person make.

After the timeskip, I actually gave Natsu the benefit of the doubt that he had grown a lot more mature... but after that move with deciding to solo Zeref, I immediately took back my words and stated that Natsu was indeed as immature as he was before.

If he hadn't made that decision to solo Zeref, I would have said that Natsu qualifies as a good 9th Guild Master of FT, but clearly that isn't the case in this thread because of that wrong move he made against Zeref.

Well obviously you would have called it a dumb decision at the time because obviously we as readers knew it wasn't going to turn out as planned. You keep looking at this from a reader's perspective but that's completely unfair considering that Natsu has none of the knowledge that you have.

I'm sorry if I'm getting too worked up but the clear and obvious bias you have against Natsu is just extremely irritating. You keep blaming him for his loss despite the fact that had Zeref not revealed their relationship, NATSU WOULD HAVE SUCCEEDED. I really don't see what's so hard to understand about this.

Give the following a thought. If it had been literally ANY other character with the same power that went in against Zeref alone, that character would have won. Think about that for a second. If Gray was the one who fought Zeref with the same power as Igneel Natsu, he would have killed him. Literally the only reason why Natsu didn't win is because he's Natsu. Out of the billions of people that ever lived on the planet he just happens to be the one person that's Zeref's brother. And accusing Natsu of making a stupid move when it WOULD HAVE WORKED had it not been for sheer plot convenience is just flat out fucking retarded.

 

[Nemispelled]

I'm sorry but this is just complete and utter nonsense. Natsu had no preparations? He literally spent ten fucking months training to harness Igneel's power to use it against Zeref. Natsu went in without back up? So fucking what? How would back up have helped in any way? Zeref can't be killed by brute strength and all the back up in the world wouldn't have prevented Happy from stopping Natsu.

Sure he ended up wasting that power but it's not like it was a plan doomed to fail no matter what. You blatantly ignore the fact that the plan was actually going to work had Zeref not revealed the whole relationship thing. Zeref being this evil all-powerful immortal means absolutely jack shit because it wasn't Zeref's immortality that caused Natsu's plan to fail, it was Zeref's relationship with Natsu, something that was completely impossible to predict and something that was completely out of Natsu's control.

That's completely wrong.

Natsu had no intel of Zeref's army and Zeref himself. He charged in without thinking and planning and didn't bother to warn anybody.

What he did was risky, he was lucky that he only wasted Igneel's magic.

That fight could have ended a lot worse. There is no excuse for his behavior there.

He challenged the immortal black wizard and abandoned his friends who were working hard on a strategy to defend the coast of Ishgar from Alvarez's forces.

I don't see how Natsu can be given a pass there.


EDIT:

Keep in mind that Invel was also there with Zeref.

Zeref purposefully ordered Invel to fall back, Natsu was lucky.

What would happen if Invel insta-froze Natsu at that time?

You got a frozen Natsu and Emperor Zeref standing right in front of him.

You know how bad that would have ended?

And why should he have told his guild mates? What in the fuck would that have accomplished? They'd either discourage him from going or they'd go with him and just get in the way. What would the point be of telling them?

Why should he tell his guild mates??? Are you seriously asking that question?

What kind of friend is that?

You got Alvarez's forces storming the southern and northern borders of Ishgar, with other guilds (Sabertooth and Lamia) defending the ports with their lives.

FT was trying to gather a team, but they wasted time because Natsu was MIA and didn't bother to tell them. He abandoned his guild.

That wasted time and caused tension... especially between Erza and Gray.

C'mon, any decent friend would inform his family members about his decision.

Natsu was being careless...

Do you know what the phrase "finish what he started" even means? The phrase is used when someone DELIBERATELY decides to not complete their objective. Natsu didn't have a fucking choice, he was stopped by force. And you fail to realize that as long as Happy is there with Natsu, the result would have been the same regardless of when Natsu decided to confront Zeref.

Of course he didn't have a fucking choice... You think I don't know that?

That's why I said he shouldn't have gone in alone in the first place.

None of this would have been a problem if Natsu decided to cooperate with his allies.

Oh come on, now that's just absurd. Zeref clearly meant the power that Natsu had and not literally Igneel's power, and even if he didn't there are plenty of other instances in the battle where he makes it clear that Natsu is strong enough to kill him. Now you're just grasping at straws.

You can say I'm grasping at straws, but I'm just telling the facts as they are.

Fact is, Natsu didn't carry out his mission, and that costed him to waste Igneel's leftover magic.

Like I said, it was magic that could have been used to solo a top-tier Spriggan. It was a big blunder as far as I'm concerned.

Well obviously you would have called it a dumb decision at the time because obviously we as readers knew it wasn't going to turn out as planned. You keep looking at this from a reader's perspective but that's completely unfair considering that Natsu has none of the knowledge that you have.

I called it a dumb decision because it was plain obvious. I'm not acting like a detective that just solved a major mystery.

It was literally plain common sense, something that Natsu lacked at that time, which is why I don't qualify him as guild master yet.

If anything, Natsu had more intel than me because he is actually in the manga, he knows his potential and the threat of Zeref.

Both Gray and Laxus disapproved of Natsu's actions, it was no less than common sense imo.

The only 2 people who stood up for Natsu was Mavis and Erza.

I'm sorry if I'm getting too worked up but the clear and obvious bias you have against Natsu is just extremely irritating. You keep blaming him for his loss despite the fact that had Zeref not revealed their relationship, NATSU WOULD HAVE SUCCEEDED. I really don't see what's so hard to understand about this.

Well, I can't help it that Natsu decided to play hero and solo Zeref.

Natsu being confident that he could solo Zeref is like saying Gildartz is confident that he could solo Acnologia.

I bet you if next chapter, Gildartz decided he was gonna solo Acnologia, you would be beyond pissed. The only reason why you aren't with Natsu and Zeref is because you support Natsu as a character.

Again, I'm not blaming Natsu for not succeeding, I'm blaming him for challenging Zeref by himself.

Natsu has all the qualities of a master, but he just lacks the brains and common sense. That's all there is to it... his maturity.

Give the following a thought. If it had been literally ANY other character with the same power that went in against Zeref alone, that character would have won. Think about that for a second. If Gray was the one who fought Zeref with the same power as Igneel Natsu, he would have killed him. Literally the only reason why Natsu didn't win is because he's Natsu. Out of the billions of people that ever lived on the planet he just happens to be the one person that's Zeref's brother. And accusing Natsu of making a stupid move when it WOULD HAVE WORKED had it not been for sheer plot convenience is just flat out fucking retarded.

I'm not against Natsu beating Zeref. That isn't the point. This has nothing to do with power ranking or battles.

I don't care who wins and who loses... Soloing Zeref is not the problem here.

The problem here was Natsu's decision to abandon his friends and the guild by challenging Zeref alone.

He didn't inform his allies and went straight for the "Emperor", despite knowing the possible dangers and risk associated with that.

That was an immature move on his part, which is why I said he is not ready to become master yet.

 

[Doughboy]

Here who's not viable to be candidate no matter what the circumstances are:

1. Natsu
2. Gajeel
3. Gray
4. Wendy

No matter what happens at the conclusion the war with Alvarez or whatever happens to the MC's, these 4 will never be considered for guildmaster. I would want it to be Laxus -> Erza -> Gildarts -> Lucy/Mira in order of candidacy. Nobody else makes sense in the FT guild. But like I said if I was a betting man it would probably be Erza again.

 

[Takuan]

I can see where you are going with that, but unfortunately, I think those 2 cases are a little bit different.

Makarov has no idea about the strength/power of his own children, especially after that 1 year time gap.

But Team Natsu (Natsu, Gray, and Erza) have been fighting alongside one another ever since they were kids. They, of all people, would know each other's power/capabilities more than anybody else.

And even though Makarov was worried for his children against Ajeel (any parent would), Natsu did something drastic that should have been an obvious wrong move. Both Gray and Laxus were against the idea of Natsu trying to solo the immortal black wizard, but even after witnessing that, Erza still challenged Gray in front of the guild.

It's not just that though, I think Erza is similar to Mavis in the fact that she can be emotionally unstable (like Makarov's death) and that she is too hopeful. In a dire situation like last chapter, Makarov was very well justified for using himself as a sacrifice.

Erza couldn't see that though. And to be honest, if it was Erza as the master, the only way too get out of that situation would be to use PoF.

I agree with you dude don't worry. In all honesty overall i get your point and i agree to a certain extent. I just think you're over exagerating your valid point, if that makes any sense. XD
Like, i think Makarov is a good parent overall and does everything to protect his children. But he is also unaware (or doesn't care) of their feelings when he's always trying to sacrifice himself without letting them a chance to try and fight for themselves. He's like "i don't know if you can do it, so i'll sacrifice, peace".

Natsu's move against Zeref was extremely reckless but it would have worked, if not for Happy. However, even if it turned out to make more sense than it appeared first, doesn't mean it was a good idea to let him go alone like that. So i agree with you that Erza's bias in that case was stupid.

I kinda disagree about Erza's instability. Erza showed to be unstable emotionally when Makarov sacrificed himself.
Had Makarov been at Erza's place, with Erza sacrificing, he would have been unstable as well. The reason Makarov sacrifices in the first place is because he doesn't want anyone else to die, well that's the same feeling for Erza, hence why she reacted that way at Makarov's sacrifice. I think Erza would have made the same move as Makarov, sacrificing in order to protect everybody else, while refusing anyone else (than herself) to sacrifice.
Makarov was roght to sacrifice, but it's not like Erza or Mavis don't see that as a right move. They just don't accept his sacrifice because tthey refuse to let nakamas (even more so the guild master) die. Now it remains to be seen if Erza is able to cast Fairy Law, but i'm pretty sure that if she could, she would have done the same sacrifice without regret. Same goes for Laxus. And for Mavis, as shown in Fairy Tail Zero (she casted Law in order to save Yuri, knowing full well the consequences). (well, maybe not full well huh)

Oh, Mavis puts a lot of trust into her allies... way too much trust in my opinion.

Like when she (along with Erza) trusted Natsu to solo Zeref.

The problem with Mavis is that she is similar to Erza in regards to how they win battles. Like last chapter proved, they don't know when to "take action". The guild was in pretty bad shape and Makarov took solid action to counter their enemies.

But with Mavis, she only makes plans... she doesn't carry them out. Clearly, FT had no time to execute Mavis' plan last chapter, that would only cause more casualties, but Makarov was wise because he knew that he had to stop it there before the berserkers had a chance to spill any more blood.

To be honest i don't know what Mavis has up her sleeves, so i won't try to judge that. But yeah, she makes plans and doesn't carry them out, well, she only recently became flesh and bones again so of course she wouldn't be able to act herself. The one time she acted herself was when she saved FT squad from Acno back on Tenrou, and that was a solid guild master action.
Fuck me, i'm trying to defend Mavis when clearly i'm not his biggest fan. Uhhh.

I can see where you are going, but in my opinion, I just can't qualify Erza yet. She may have good intentions and a good heart, but I think she would have trouble when it comes to taking action.

As with stopping crazy members like Gray and Natsu, I think that it is mostly for comedic purposes. Erza couldn't stop Gray from continuing the S-Class mission against Deliora on Galuna Island.

Although Erza does have good authority overall, I think that her indecisive and emotional behavior would make it difficult for me to deem her a good master.

Erza couldn't stop Gray, but that goes to show Gray's strength of will, more than Erza's failure as a potential guild master. That's how i see it at least.
I don't really think she's indecisive, i mean i don't know why she'd be indecisive. She was quick to make plans and carry them when they needed to save Makarov on Alvarez. When the DS squad landed on Ajeel's flying ship everyone was like "oh gooood we forgot dayummm what we gonna do", Erza was the only one reacting to it quickly and saved the day. Could serve as a way to be salty about her stealing the spotlight, but also proves she is indeed quick to take action.

Alright i think i'm out of this debate, i missed way too many posts and i'm too busy right now to keep up. I think i can agree with you on Laxus choice, but i feel like you're a bit hard on Erza. We'll see out it turns out anyway =)

 

[Boomburst]

That's completely wrong.

Natsu had no intel of Zeref's army and Zeref himself. He charged in without thinking and planning and didn't bother to warn anybody.

What he did was risky, he was lucky that he only wasted Igneel's magic.

That fight could have ended a lot worse. There is no excuse for his behavior there.

He challenged the immortal black wizard and abandoned his friends who were working hard on a strategy to defend the coast of Ishgar from Alvarez's forces.

I don't see how Natsu can be given a pass there.

But do you not see that a strategy to defend Ishgar wouldn't have even been needed had Natsu killed Zeref? It's not like he just decided to fight him for the fun of it, killing Zeref could have prevented the whole war from even taking place and no one in his guild would have gotten hurt. All the bloodshed and violence could have been avoided had Natsu succeeded.

EDIT:

Keep in mind that Invel was also there with Zeref.

Zeref purposefully ordered Invel to fall back, Natsu was lucky.

What would happen if Invel insta-froze Natsu at that time?

You got a frozen Natsu and Emperor Zeref standing right in front of him.

You know how bad that would have ended?

Actually it would have turned out fine considering that even Base Natsu broke out of Invel's ice just fine, meaning that with Igneel's power Invel probably would have gotten fodderized.

Why should he tell his guild mates??? Are you seriously asking that question?

What kind of friend is that?

You got Alvarez's forces storming the southern and northern borders of Ishgar, with other guilds (Sabertooth and Lamia) defending the ports with their lives.

FT was trying to gather a team, but they wasted time because Natsu was MIA and didn't bother to tell them. He abandoned his guild.

That wasted time and caused tension... especially between Erza and Gray.

C'mon, any decent friend would inform his family members about his decision.

Natsu was being careless...

You can keep playing this "oh what a terrible friend he was" game all you want but that's completely irrelevant considering that he was TRYING TO END THE WAR. Again, he didn't go after Zeref just for the hell of it, it should be obvious that killing Zeref would have been far more beneficial to his guild mates than staying behind and helping defend. Telling his guild about his plan would have only hindered him.

Of course he didn't have a fucking choice... You think I don't know that?

That's why I said he shouldn't have gone in alone in the first place.

None of this would have been a problem if Natsu decided to cooperate with his allies.

And what exactly would have turned out differently had Natsu not gone alone? What would have changed?

You can say I'm grasping at straws, but I'm just telling the facts as they are.

Is this supposed to be an argument?

Fact is, Natsu didn't carry out his mission, and that costed him to waste Igneel's leftover magic.

Like I said, it was magic that could have been used to solo a top-tier Spriggan. It was a big blunder as far as I'm concerned.

You do realize that apart from END, Natsu with Igneel's power is the only way for Zeref to die right? He could have soloed a top-tier Spriggan sure, but then he would have given up Fairy Tail's only way of killing Zeref and that would have been a far greater waste than at least trying to kill Zeref. Natsu had a chance to end all conflict and get rid of the main villain of the series and you wanted him to waste that chance on a lackey?

I called it a dumb decision because it was plain obvious. I'm not acting like a detective that just solved a major mystery.

It was literally plain common sense, something that Natsu lacked at that time, which is why I don't qualify him as guild master yet.

It wasn't plain common sense considering the fact that Natsu WOULD HAVE SUCCEEDED.

If anything, Natsu had more intel than me because he is actually in the manga, he knows his potential and the threat of Zeref.

But he wasn't wrong about his potential nor was he wrong about the threat of Zeref. The outcome would have been the same regardless of Zeref's power because like I've repeated countless times, what caused him to lose wasn't Zeref being an almighty immortal dark wizard, it was because they were related in a way that was completely impossible to predict.

Both Gray and Laxus disapproved of Natsu's actions, it was no less than common sense imo.

The only 2 people who stood up for Natsu was Mavis and Erza.

When did Gray's and Laxus's opinions start to matter more than Ezra's and Mavis's?

Well, I can't help it that Natsu decided to play hero and solo Zeref.

Natsu being confident that he could solo Zeref is like saying Gildartz is confident that he could solo Acnologia.

I bet you if next chapter, Gildartz decided he was gonna solo Acnologia, you would be beyond pissed. The only reason why you aren't with Natsu and Zeref is because you support Natsu as a character.

That doesn't make any sense in the slightest. The two scenarios are completely different because Gildarts has no chance whatsoever against Acnologia, while Natsu actually COULD beat Zeref, WAS beating Zeref, and WOULD HAVE beat Zeref had it not been for sheer plot convenience.

Again, I'm not blaming Natsu for not succeeding, I'm blaming him for challenging Zeref by himself.

Natsu has all the qualities of a master, but he just lacks the brains and common sense. That's all there is to it... his maturity.


I'm not against Natsu beating Zeref. That isn't the point. This has nothing to do with power ranking or battles.

I don't care who wins and who loses... Soloing Zeref is not the problem here.

So let me ask you this. Had Natsu actually succeeded, would you still find him immature and incompetent?

The problem here was Natsu's decision to abandon his friends and the guild by challenging Zeref alone.

He didn't inform his allies and went straight for the "Emperor", despite knowing the possible dangers and risk associated with that.

That was an immature move on his part, which is why I said he is not ready to become master yet.

What's funny about all this is that Natsu's actions were pretty much identical to Makarov's actions when he disbanded the guild. Makarov abandoned his family without telling anyone so that he could try and prevent a war with the strongest nation in the world. Is Makarov too immature to be a guild master because he failed as well?

 

[M3J]

This is precisely Natsu's fault and dumb decision because he just wasted one of the strongest magic currently because he rushed in without thinking.

He knew he was going up against the immortal evil black wizard, the one responsible for sufferings of centuries... and yet he was so confident that he decided to go in solo without backup or preparations.

He didn't even tell his own guild mates what his plan was and what he was doing... please, there should be no excuse for that kind of behavior.

I still think Natsu is one of the worst choices to be a leader of anything but a small team, but this isn't fair. Didn't Happy stop Natsu from using his strongest attack because he didn't want Natsu to die? if Natsu had gone through with it, who knows what would have happened.