Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Original Book Series) [SPOILERS - BEWARE]

[desin24]

Anywhere from the ghost warg possibility, the turning white walker possibility, or the melissandre ressurecting him possibility, there are lots of options available when it comes to revive jon snow.

I know the possibilities, I'm rather curious what you personally would prefer

 

[xi0]

The Ghost solution and the Mel solution sort of go hand in hand, going by the clues.

 

[Aonori]

I know the possibilities, I'm rather curious what you personally would prefer

The meli option would be more preferable to me, the white walker one frightens me the most case it would turn jon into most likely a bad guy.

 

[xi0]

The meli option would be more preferable to me, the white walker one frightens me the most case it would turn jon into most likely a bad guy.

Bad guy? Depends on your perspective, perhaps

 

[Aonori]

White walkers as far as humanity is concerned (all of it), are bad especially right now when there's clearly a broken power balance benefitting the white walkers, so assuming jon becomes a white walker he should contribute for that imbalance and might even become a antagobist for his own family members which isnt exactly pleasing but we all know Martin can turn jon into a edgelord if he wants to, lady stoneheart is a prime example, of negative character development been given to a GoT character after ressurection (well in GoT standards it's development that is required for the environment the characters are in, if they dont adapt to the situation they die, which makes me think Jon can go very far in negative development if he ressurects (maybe even more than lady stoneheart)).

Still this all depends on a lot of circunstances so it's just speculation at this point, but I wouldnt surprised if Martin made Jon Snow a more villainous character after he comes back, it would match the series quite well.

 

[desin24]

The meli option would be more preferable to me, the white walker one frightens me the most case it would turn jon into most likely a bad guy.

I fear even with Mel's resurrection that Jon will be quite "bad". George always says that death will change you so I guess we'll see. I could even imagine Jon not dying at all and just getting healed by Melisandre, thus having a huge divergence between Books and Show.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2016 ---

White walkers as far as humanity is concerned (all of it), are bad especially right now when there's clearly a broken power balance benefitting the white walkers, so assuming jon becomes a white walker he should contribute for that imbalance and might even become a antagobist for his own family members which isnt exactly pleasing but we all know Martin can turn jon into a edgelord if he wants to, lady stoneheart is a prime example, of negative character development been given to a GoT character after ressurection (well in GoT standards it's development that is required for the environment the characters are in, if they dont adapt to the situation they die, which makes me think Jon can go very far in negative development if he ressurects (maybe even more than lady stoneheart)).

I guess it all depends on how long he stays dead and how his warging may benefit him. Beric was still pretty much a cool guy altough he died often while Lady Stoneheart went full Vader. Jon becoming the villain would increase Danaerys' chances to be the "heroine" *shudders*

 

[Aonori]

I fear even with Mel's resurrection that Jon will be quite "bad". George always says that death will change you so I guess we'll see. I could even imagine Jon not dying at all and just getting healed by Melisandre, thus having a huge divergence between Books and Show.

Well one thing is for certain that shitstain Olie from the Tv series will suffer from Jon snow's wrath once he ressurects, Sam even warned him to not worry that Jon always comes back.

 

[desin24]

Well one thing is for certain that shitstain Olie from the Tv series will suffer from Jon snow's wrath once he ressurects, Sam even warned him to not worry that Jon always comes back.

The internet will be in a frenzy once Olly dies. It would be the perfect: I'm back to kill bitches and ice demons, and now I'm all out of bitches But first he would have to survive the aftermath of For The Watch and that might not be as easy even though there's no rampaging WunWun.

 

[xi0]

>in book thread
>people talking about Ollie
>

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

Guys in case it wasn't obvious, this is the books thread, for the show head here to discuss it. Thanks.

And if someone would be so kind to move the offtopic posts...

 

[Lomahongva]

You can take your time then

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 3, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 3, 2016 ---

Yeah didn't think he'd make it anyway, but I'm a bit concerned about the spoiling things part. He did say the next season could spoil the books.

Well at least those who only watched the TV series can rejoice.For them nothing will be spoiled...

Yes, speacilly because I still have 700+ pages left... ^.^U That's why I'm also concerned about spoilers... so I'll leave this thread for the moment. ^.^

 

[xi0]

And if someone would be so kind to move the offtopic posts...

Not a big deal, I was only making a joke because a lot of book fans hate the change they made with Jon's storyline and the Ollie thing.

But yeah, it's probably best to talk about show-specific stuff in the show thread.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 28, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2016 ---

https://weirwoodleviathan.wordpress...ow-i-am-become-death-legacy-of-a-toy-soldier/

Holy moly, this series is great

Anyone else find it before me?

 

[Akainu]

What a shame, it's written so well and then turns into the direction of a preconceived opinion. All this "we know this will happen" that is based on a whole lot of nothing. Oh well, too bad GRRM didn't deliver. There'd be certainly less insanity.

 

[xi0]

What a shame, it's written so well and then turns into the direction of a preconceived opinion. All this "we know this will happen" that is based on a whole lot of nothing. Oh well, too bad GRRM didn't deliver. There'd be certainly less insanity.

Well I mean, it's based upon how he views the series isn't it? How is it not going to be preconceived opinion?

 

[Akainu]

Well I mean, it's based upon how he views the series isn't it? How is it not going to be preconceived opinion?

Well, technically yes. I might have been under the erronious assumption that when analysing something people would start off neutral and then build up their theory with proof after proof falling into place. It's still a well written opinion.

 

[xi0]

Well, I think most fans sort of lean certain ways when it comes to analyzing the series. So it's not really surprising if there's a bit of confirmation bias going on. But either way I think his points are pretty well-founded, even though for some they might be hard to stomach. I'd say most fans are looking towards the conclusion of this series with optimism, but GRRM has made a point of treating the idea of hope and optimism rather harshly, so I'm not sure why people expect that sort of ending. That's why the idea of Bran becoming Jon makes sense to me. On face value, we'd get what most fans want, and it sort of makes more sense than any other idea for Jon's resurrection that's been put forward. It would be something the readers would know, but not the characters in the books.

 

[Akainu]

The Bran controling Jon Snow's body (and the dragon) thing is actually an interesting way to tie up the story in the north. However, the way it is presented, that Melisandre and Stannis will absolutely and without fail have to burn Shireen, doesn't sit well with me. That part seems to be more show-driven than anything, unless I miss an elephant in the room.
And then there's another part about Lady Stoneheart passing on the flame of life to Jon's body... She hated the guy in life for everything he represented. Someone would have to clear up all of Jon's parentage and, what's more, she'd have to be amenable to reason. Something she hasn't shown much of, if at all. Especially when her blind revenge goals in death are concerned. So unless this helped in some way to fulfill those goals - or she already achieved everything - I don't see that happening.

 

[xi0]

However, the way it is presented, that Melisandre and Stannis will absolutely and without fail have to burn Shireen, doesn't sit well with me. That part seems to be more show-driven than anything, unless I miss an elephant in the room.

Well, that was the big controversy at the end of the last season, the fact that D&D pretty much said that Shireen getting burned is cannon. The circumstances will likely be different, and Stannis might not be involved at all, but at this point I don't think rejecting it happening at all can really be done.

And then there's another part about Lady Stoneheart passing on the flame of life to Jon's body... She hated the guy in life for everything he represented. Someone would have to clear up all of Jon's parentage and, what's more, she'd have to be amenable to reason. Something she hasn't shown much of, if at all. Especially when her blind revenge goals in death are concerned. So unless this helped in some way to fulfill those goals - or she already achieved everything - I don't see that happening.

The point of talking about Beric and Lady Stoneheart and their connection to Bloodraven is that these two lose parts of themselves and eventually just become driven towards a single purpose. For Beric it was justice for the smallfolk, and with LSH it's revenge on people who wronged her and her family. Bloodraven may be the reason why these two exist, but he isn't controlling them 100% of the time. The most that could be said is that he's indifferent to what they've done/are doing. When you bring Bran into it, someone who has seemingly defied what Bloodraven says could be done (reaching back into the past, etc), it may be that he's capable of even more. Something like bringing Jon back in name and actions, but living through him entirely. And at that point, UnJon would be both Jon/Bran and maybe something else entirely as well. If it goes this route, I wouldn't expect Jon to be a PoV character again, and only clues being pointed towards this sort of thing...or maybe that there will be chapters vaguely from Jon's PoV but him merely living through Ghost, or maybe chapters in which he experiences sharing an experience with Bran and parts with him experiencing life "inside" ghost.

 

[Riku]

New excerpt; http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/

 

[xi0]

New excerpt; http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/

It isn't new material unfortunately. There were summaries of it from his readings at book signings. Still, this is new info here

"And no, just to spike any bullshit rumors, changing the sample chapter does NOT mean I am done. See the icon up above? Monkey is still on my back... but he's growing, he is, and one day..."